Point Value of Ships

Masat · Post by **Masat** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:44 pm

Thank you for your cloaking answers. One more question please. For a game where two opponents each have points to make a fleet and the only rule is destroy the opponent, are the points on the cards accurate for a floating map or are the points on the cars accurate for a fixed map?

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:20 pm

ship point value is used for both fixed and floating

Masat · Post by **Masat** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:12 pm

I am sorry but I am confused. How can they both be accurate? For example Hydran fusion ships with stingers. They would be worth many more points on a fixed map instead of a floating map? Is this not correct? This makes me think only one can be accurate.

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

The points simply are what they are, not particularly accurate in either scenario. Treat them as a rough guide, with a pinch of salt.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:37 pm

Lee has it correct. The points are what they are.

leathernsteel · Post by **leathernsteel** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:44 am

In my experience with gaming, the rules are only a guide for the best gaming experience. You, on your own, must do what make your own gaming experience better. Sometimes that means forgetting the rules and using your own "house rules" to make it fun for everyone involved. Trial and error method will be most useful to you in getting the best gaming experience.

Masat · Post by **Masat** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:26 pm

Thank you for your answers. I understand now the points on the cards are not accurate for a game where two opponents each have points to make a fleet. The points on the cards are more for decoration. Both opponents need to agree on the fleets for an accurate game and not use the points on the cards.

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:05 am

The points on the card are not for decoration. It allows players to make relatively evenly matched fleets.

When ever I play a fleet game, the points are usually close but not equal. I ask my opponent if he is ok with the difference and we begin the battle. Sometimes he has more points, sometimes I do. However, it has never happened where one person would say that he would never have a chance to win.

The ship point values are not perfect but they work pretty good for our group.

Why dont you give us an example of two fleets where the point value is equal but where you think one oponent has the advantage.

The_Rock · Post by **The_Rock** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:31 am

wedge_hammersteel wrote: Why dont you give us an example of two fleets where the point value is equal but where you think one oponent has the advantage.

Any plasma fleet at any BVP against any direct fire fleet at the same BVP.

leathernsteel · Post by **leathernsteel** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:19 am

Plasma bolt

Masat · Post by **Masat** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:30 am

I see different answers. Some think it is fine. Others think it is not accurate if I understand what is meant by "the points are what they are".

My question was fixed or floating map accurate? May I ask Wedge_hammersteel if you believe the points are accurate on both sizes of fixed map for the small hexes 30 by 42 and large hexes 18 by 24?

I believe fusions and stingers are more powerful on 18 by 24 than on open map.

I would please ask mjwest and storyelf if they know fleets that they believe are not accurate if they were saying that by their posts. Also any other members of the Federation Commander Forum that have more experience.

For some examples I can see from my limited cards

Fleet Scale Tholian Patrol Corvette for 22 points vs 2 Fleet Scale Armed Priority Transport for 22 points

11 Armed Cutter for 154 points vs 14 armed priority transport for 154 points

2 Klingon D7 vs 2 Hydran Mongol and 8 stingers on open map where Klingon has advantage

4 Klingon F5 frigate vs 2 Hydran Mongol and 12 stingers on small fixed map where Hydran has advantage

mojo jojo · Post by **mojo jojo** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:47 am

If I understand correctly, BPV are basically the same as in SFB with some adjustments for things like drone speeds. So to the extent that FC rules and interactions are different from SFB (with plasma being the most glaring example), the BPV may be off.

That being said, the one "BPV fits all" doctrine also applied to SFB. Crunch weapons benefit from small maps there as well as in FC and good long range weapons benefit from open maps there as well. So if you come from a SFB background, you should be used to the issue.

It's pretty much impossible to have a separate BPV for every combination of map size/terrain/opponent, so the best you can do is to approximate and pick a BPV for the 'average' situation.

wedge_hammersteel · Post by **wedge_hammersteel** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:43 am

Masat
I think you need to have a minimum size playing field for the game in general. 18 x 24 is pretty small. At least for our group. Some races will be hindered by a small fixed map. When I was contemplating your question, I was thinking of a tournament size map.

duxvolantis · Post by **duxvolantis** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:34 am

wedge_hammersteel wrote:Masat
I think you need to have a minimum size playing field for the game in general. 18 x 24 is pretty small. At least for our group. Some races will be hindered by a small fixed map. When I was contemplating your question, I was thinking of a tournament size map.

Tournament play skews BPV toward direct-fire crunch races.

Even in SFB the Klingon ship was one of the very hardest to win with and they gave it a whole bunch of gadgets to try and catch it up with everyone else.

Kang · Post by **Kang** » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:07 am

Masat wrote:The points on the cards are more for decoration.

Hehe, I love it

Btw, welcome to the forums, Masat!