How playable are the 2500's?

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:45 am

Are the 2500's getting much FedComm and SFB play? If so, how's it working out? Do tight formations get tricky?

these things are big...

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:11 am

We use them for our Fed Comm games and even a couple of
SFB games; but we do have one advantage. We play SFB / Fed Comm on a 6 x 8 starmat with 2 inch hexes.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:16 am

I'll be setting up special, weighted hex-bases for use on the FedCom map panels (gonna have 1/4" sheet steel laser cut in hexes, with stand holes; once I get my act together).

I don't anticipate any more (or less!) trouble with conflicts than I have with the SL2400s. The big ships get in each others way, regardless of which product line. "Stacking" in the same hex, etc., drives "creative thinking", regardless.

Post by **Steve Cole** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:29 pm

You're always going to have the problem that space is big and weapons ranges are vast. You can fly a thousand ships without crowding in one hex of SFB/FC or one inch of ACTA. Minis don't stack very well, which is why I prefer counters.

I play civil war minis because the base stands of the minis are the size of the infantry formations in actual scale.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:08 pm

One of the groups I played with used a "house rule" that was a port of the old (much more dangerous) Commander's Edition SFB explosion rules. That provided plenty of incentive to not want to "stack" or even be too close.

archon96 · Post by **archon96** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:26 pm

The acta:sf rules just make it painful enough to stack up close to someone.

Monty · Post by **Monty** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:34 pm

This is only my perception, I don't think I have a large enough sample size to be certain, but it seems like Fed Comm engagements turn into very tight scrums more times than not. It may be the mindset of the opponents in my group, it may be the rules lend them selves to this type of play, not sure.

Scoutdad,

Did you try other hex sizes 1st or just go with 2" because you had available acreage?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Went with 2" hexes for multiple reasons:

1) I did have the available acreage
2) That was the size that was in-stock in the store when the mats were purchased
3) Two 6' x 4' mats in stock
4) Two 6' x 4' mats almost exactly covers my 12' x 38" game tabel.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Stock FedCom has little incentive not to stack (no explosions) and pretty good incentives to stack. Even the "only-3-ships-firing-out-a-hexside" rule still allows a useful degree of concentrated fire.

Because of that, my groups ended up setting up methods to deal with the inevitable "stacking" of minis.

I always brought my 1-inch counters with me and we would always pull out the appropriate counters, before we got going. When things got tight, we would swap the offending minis for their counters, temporarily. Eventually, I just kept the appropriate counter with the mini, in its case-compartment.

Other groups use "breakout" boards, to good effect. One group I played with one time used cool 12" ceramic hexagonal tiles that had 2" hex pattern inside of them. These were kept off to the side of the main game map and ships in a single hex on the main map were placed on a "breakout" tile, until they de-conflicted.

My current plan is to make an enlarged hex-grid, probably about 4" hexes. I want it big enough to fit just one hex and its surrounding hexes, on a standard piece of chipboard. The intention is to have the hexes large enough to accommodate at least two of the biggest minis.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:08 am

I'd love to see a simplified version of explosions in Federation Commander for several reasons, one of which would be the crowding issue.

Explosion strength of ship = its point value divided by 10 and rounded to nearest whole number.

That many damage points applied to every object in the blown up ship's hex. Half that many to every object in adjacent hexes.

Affected shield facing within the hex determined the same way as for combat within the same hex.

Simple.

aramis · Post by **aramis** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:54 am

Mike wrote: Explosion strength of ship = its point value divided by 10 and rounded to nearest whole number.

Simple.

Simpler still: just use the existing fixed numbers from the annexes in SFB, halved for fleet scale.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Simpler still: just use the existing fixed numbers from the annexes in SFB, halved for fleet scale.

But with this method, one must have the SFB annexes. Are those explosion strengths going to have to be looked up every time there is an explosion?

Post by **Steve Cole** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 pm

This way madness lies.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:48 pm

This way madness lies.

Guess that means you have an Annex all ready to print up for Borders of Madness ---

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:17 pm

If you really want ship explosions, just keep it ridiculously simple. Like this:
Explosion strength is 20 times the movement rate. Orions add 10 to the result. (Old Romulans do NOT add anything.) Civilian ships halve the result. Fleet scale is half the final result. When a ship explodes, apply the damage to every ship in the same hex depending on facing. If facing was not stated as ships entered the same hex, roll a die to determine which shield is hit.

This gives you an extremely simple system that is close enough, and does the job. Since this is just a house rule, change the base "20" to get whatever result you want.