Pseudo Fighter SSD's

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:07 am

OK...I get non-EA gunboats now. That sounds workable. I assume the effect of damage would be printed on the card for reference.

I really like the idea of gunboats to help with those handful of points left over.

Don't like the idea of leaders, scouts, tenders in FC. BoM for those.

Sneaky Scot · Post by **Sneaky Scot** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:17 am

I really like Mike West's thoughts on gunboats. Simple, no EA, but still keeps the feeling about right (admittedly without playing them). Definitely keep leaders & scouts for BoM. I'd also prefer to keep 6 shields than use interceptor shields, although I wouldn't rule out interceptors under a similar version of the rules Mike has outlined.

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:29 pm

I could go either way on the shields. The two shields will make the PFs last longer though since it's take more hits to down that one shield and get the "pop"

semperatis · Post by **semperatis** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:03 am

I think that this observation should really go under this topic,in that there already is a PF/Gunboat in FC. It may not be apparent at first glance,and may also be a reason that the Feds never built a true PF. This ship is as fast as a gunboat,can load all weapons,move at 32,pay for EM and an HET and still have some spare power(1.25 points);it's also cheaper than any other gunboat ever produced. To top it off,this ship requires no Tender and there is already a cargo variant available. The downside of this 'gunboat' is weak shields and the turn mode of a cruiser.

The identity of this little godsend,the APT/AC,and at just 22/25 pts is a real steal. The good thing is that every nation has them.

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 am

Are you serious?

The APT has 1 Ph-3, that's it.

The AC isn't much better armed.

They can go 32 and load everything because they don't have anything to load.

A PF will rock anything less than a cruiser and even the cruiser will feel some pain for destroying a PF.

The APT and AC don't fit the bill.

Check out the G1L in commander's circle to see the difference between the APT/AC and a gunboat. If you drop all the yellow boxes, you'll have a standard G1.

Gunboats have 3-5 heavy weapons plus phasers and the power to use them.

Bolo_MK_XL · Post by **Bolo_MK_XL** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:32 am

Ran a set of Howlers (old models), headlong straight into a B-10. He tried to take shots at several at end of one turn, others first chance next turn.

With a couple cripples and another mangled, the B-10 (resembling Swiss cheese) with 9 Stinger-2s about to fly down his throat conceded.

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:59 am

Let's be a little more reasonable on the description of gunboats.

They have 1-2 heavy weapons and 2-1 secondary weapons. They then have 2-4 phasers. They also have a point value of about 40 points. They are great gap-fillers and great little attrition units. But they are not world-beaters.

The ancient Howlers (Hydran with Ph-Gs) and the ancient Buccaneers (Orion with 4 option mounts) were ludicrously unbalanced and are worthless to provide any useful comparisons. I would expect to never see the Howler in Federation Commander.

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:45 am

The range of costs (and capabilities) would vary more for the Omega boats than for their Alpha counterparts.

For example, a standard Maesron PF has a split BPV of 35/70, with the PFL clocking in at 60/85. But, rather than the six-boat flotillas seen as standard in the Alpha Octant, the Alliance deploys these boats in groups of four.

(On the other end of the spectrum, the robotic Drex have a much smaller PF that costs 30/50, but which can be deployed in flotillas as large as eight!)

In this case, the five current FC Omega playtest empires would be on the Maesron side of the spectrum flotilla-size-wise. The Trobrin, Iridani, and Probr also fly four-boat flotillas, while the (conjectural) PFs for the Federal Republic would have been flown in groups of six, had they been built. (The choice of including those FRA boats here may depend on the precedent set by the Federation. If Star Fleet gets to build its own conjectural* boats here, the door would then be open for the Aurorans to follow suit.)

Ironically, the Aurorans were the ones to innovate the "volatile warp" technology that made these boats possible, but sold the technology to their Maesron allies rather than adopt such boats themselves. The Alliance would then try to pass on "volatile warp" tech to their former neighbours and rivals, in a desperate bid to avoid mutual extinction at the hands of the Andromedans. But the flexibility of the technology allows each adopting empire to go its own way, leading to the disparity in gunboat sizes (and flotilla numbers) seen across the octant.

Of course, the first wave of rules - whatever they may end up being - will be aimed at handling the "hot warp" boats of the Alpha Octant first. But as part of the FC Omega project, I would hope that adapting such rules to handle "volatile warp" boats will be something that could be worked out once the first step towards getting gunboats into FC (and/or BoM) is eventially made.

*Well, conjectural in the primary timeline, at any rate. In the Andromedan "dark future" timeline described in Module C3A, those Feds are forced to start building their own PFs in 2598.

semperatis · Post by **semperatis** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:07 am

Now I didn't say that it was a real PF,but that it has the capabilities of one. This ship uses drones as it's heavy weapons,much like the early Kzinti frigates did and has the phaser firepower to match. If you don't think that this ship is powerful enough to pass as a gunboat,then run a standard 125pt Heavy Cruiser against 5 of these ships and see.
As I tried to say in the BB vs two ships post,try running a BB against 16 of these gunboats and see who dies.

Comparing the AC with a G-1L,the G-1L has a disruptor more,but that's it weapon wise.( The AC has a ph-1 instead). Both have 2 drone racks,the Klingons with type-A and an ADD & the AC with type-G. Now here comes the real deal,you can buy two AC's for the cost of one G-1L,which although having only 1/2 the shielding of the G-1L,now gives you twice the firepower,(2xph-1;4xph-2;4xtype-g droneracks),which deal make more sense to you?

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

Point.

With the heavy weapon numbers, I was probably thinking more along the lines of the Plasma PFs with 5 Pl-Fs. Today of course, I remember they could only launch 2(?) per turn. Not sure, haven't played SFB in a long time. Of course, I don't have any of those PF SSDs so the memory is proving to be very faulty.

My first take on the AC as PF had a lot of SFB thought in it too. In SFB, the AC had to pay for life support, fire control, shields, etc. so it couldn't go speed 31 and do everything like a PF could. Add in the nimble status, 2 Free HETs, etc. to that, and the AC didn't pass my smell test. Of course, I was mixing too many games

storeylf · Post by **storeylf** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:45 am

If you don't think that this ship is powerful enough to pass as a gunboat,then run a standard 125pt Heavy Cruiser against 5 of these ships and see.
As I tried to say in the BB vs two ships post,try running a BB against 16 of these gunboats and see who dies.

Also a good way to see why gunboats really need to be done differently to ships! How much EA and fiddly stuff just to equal a heavy cruiser, 16 to equal a BB - even though I've done a lot of larger games I don't think I've ever done that many, 14 is the most I did from memory, that being a lot of Andro satelitte ships and that can get onerous, but at least it was a multi thousand point game, not a 300-400 point game.

No EA would be a good start, simpler/faster damage allocation would be nice as well.

DNordeen · Post by **DNordeen** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:15 am

Semperatis...

You were right. The AC is a tough little customer. Ran a game today and included it in the fleet. I'll have to remember to include that one whenever I have 25 points sitting around.

semperatis · Post by **semperatis** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:32 am

It just goes to show,that there are some nice hidden gems of ships already in FC,if we only learn to look at the capabilities of them carefully. This is a gem that's been so easily overlooked in the past by being thought of as only a cheap convoy escort,and much poorer than a POL cutter. What I've tried to do here is show that even the little ships in this game can surprise you.

I feel sorry for any Orion that attacks a convoy guarded by a few of these AC's.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:30 am

I love the Armed Cutter. It's a great "points filler". I'd much rather have a barely-useful ship than no ship and just have the other guy hand me some VPs (which my groups rarely bothered with anyways).

semperatis · Post by **semperatis** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:15 pm

Whereas the AC is a sweet little ship,I'm afraid to say that the Striker Skiff just doesn't cut it. This ship is very limited in it's capabilities,both offensively and defensively. It is not as fast as the AC,well it can just manage to go 32,but it only has one point of power left if it does so.

Shields:- Now where do I start,two hemisphere shields which only match one of the AC's.(Even a small freighter has better shields than this).

Weapons:-2xph-2's(360) and a type A drone rack.

Turn mode:-B(one step better than the AC).

Systems:- Ok,here it is actually better than the AC,in that it has a probe launcher and cargo space.

Points:- 27pts I'm sorry,but I really cannot see why you would ever use this ship,maybe if the hemi-shields were 15 pts each,then maybe it might have some redeaming qualities,but for the points,it's just not worth it.