Hydran and Lyran questions

[Cadmus02]

Hello,

I an SFB player who is new(ish) to FedCom. Going from one system to another is a tad confusing, as it's easy to bring rules from one system to the other by accident. I will be playing some Hydran vs Lyran games in the near future and I need a little help to wrap my head around things.

Question 1) Hellbore Volleys - All hellbore volleys happen at the same time as other direct fire weapons. In this example I am facing shield #1 on a Lyran cruiser, and its shield #4 is weakest. All my phasers and fusions resolve on his #1 shield, but all the majority of my Hellbore damage goes against his #4 shield. Is this correct, and is there any way to have Hellbores resolve later in the same impulse so that they would resolve on the same shield as my phasers?

Question 2) ESGs and Asteroids Field - If a Lyran ship is in an asteroid field hex (ie the gray hexes on the boards) can it use its ESGs to damage anything outside of that hex? There is rules for asteroids but not asteroid fields. What about a dust cloud? What if a Lyran is in open space and my Hydran is in an asteroid field hex, will it take any damage from an ESG?

Question 3) Fighters - In SFB fighters get +2 ECM and +2 ECCM and can erratically maneuver. Fighters in FedCom don't seem to get any bonuses on attack on defense. Can Fighters erratically maneuver?

Question 4) Towing Shuttles - If I tow a friendly shuttle in my hex, will it stay in my hex or will it follow one hex behind like a starship?

[Spacecowboy87]

As far as I know, (Q1) yes the majority of the hellbore damage goes against shield 4. If you want your hellbore to go through shield 1, you must weaken it on a previous impulse. (Q3) yes, fighters can fly on EM. (Q4) a tractored shuttle in your hex should stay in your hex, but a tractored ship should too.

[Cadmus02]

As far as I know, (Q1) yes the majority of the hellbore damage goes against shield 4. If you want your hellbore to go through shield 1, you must weaken it on a previous impulse. (Q3) yes, fighters can fly on EM. (Q4) a tractored shuttle in your hex should stay in your hex, but a tractored ship should too.

Thanks for your response. I have a follow up question. If a fighter uses EM, does it do so for free? There is no energy cost listed for a fighter's per hex movement.

We always played that starships get dragged one hex behind a ship, that's good to know.

[mjwest]

Question 1) Hellbore Volleys - All hellbore volleys happen at the same time as other direct fire weapons. In this example I am facing shield #1 on a Lyran cruiser, and its shield #4 is weakest. All my phasers and fusions resolve on his #1 shield, but all the majority of my Hellbore damage goes against his #4 shield. Is this correct, and is there any way to have Hellbores resolve later in the same impulse so that they would resolve on the same shield as my phasers?

No. To have the phasers take effect first, you would have to fire them on an earlier impulse.

Question 2) ESGs and Asteroids Field - If a Lyran ship is in an asteroid field hex (ie the gray hexes on the boards) can it use its ESGs to damage anything outside of that hex? There is rules for asteroids but not asteroid fields. What about a dust cloud? What if a Lyran is in open space and my Hydran is in an asteroid field hex, will it take any damage from an ESG?

Well, that's interesting. Currently, the rules have nothing to say on the interaction between ESGs and asteroids. So, that would mean that ESGs do not damage asteroids, get reduced by asteroids, or protect the ship from asteroid damage. So, as currently written, ESGs are unaffected by the presence of asteroids in any way. Nor do they protect the owning ship from asteroid damage. So, yes, ESGs can damage ships in range even if either or both ships are in an asteroid hex, and ESGs are unaffected by dust clouds.

I'll have to talk with Steve about this to see if that is what we want.

Question 3) Fighters - In SFB fighters get +2 ECM and +2 ECCM and can erratically maneuver. Fighters in FedCom don't seem to get any bonuses on attack on defense. Can Fighters erratically maneuver?

Fighters (5Q) are also shuttles (5H). (5H4) states that shuttles (and therefore fighters) may use evasive maneuvers at no cost. (They may also HET at no cost and may decelerate at any time at no cost.)

Question 4) Towing Shuttles - If I tow a friendly shuttle in my hex, will it stay in my hex or will it follow one hex behind like a starship?

Any object that is tractored by a ship will keep its relative position to the tractoring ship. So, if the tractored object is in the same hex as the tractoring ship, it will remain in the same hex as the tractoring ship until the tractor is released or otherwise broken. This is true whether the object is a ship, shuttle/fighter, or random object.

[storeylf]

Well, that's interesting. Currently, the rules have nothing to say on the interaction between ESGs and asteroids. So, that would mean that ESGs do not damage asteroids, get reduced by asteroids, or protect the ship from asteroid damage. So, as currently written, ESGs are unaffected by the presence of asteroids in any way. Nor do they protect the owning ship from asteroid damage. So, yes, ESGs can damage ships in range even if either or both ships are in an asteroid hex, and ESGs are unaffected by dust clouds.

I'll have to talk with Steve about this to see if that is what we want.

ESG and asteroids are covered:

(5N2d) "Note that moons, asteroids, planets, comets, and other such astronomical bodies are treated as the largest target and require an infinite number of damage points to destroy."

We always took that in a generic sense and that asteroids includes any asteroids that happen to make up an asteroid field, or that they come under other such astronomical bodies. I'm pretty sure we included dust fields in that (as just a type of asteroid field as well). Though I can't remember whether we ever did ESGs in such terrain now.

[mjwest]

ESG and asteroids are covered ...

Individual asteroids are covered, but not asteroid hexes. I am asking Steve how he wants to handle the hexes.

Also, note that the only time this is relevant is with an offensive burst. Defensive bursts or anti-hellbore bursts are unaffected by the presence of an asteroid hex or a dust hex.

[storeylf]

I suppose I am confused, asteroids are all covered under 6B as just 'asteroids'. Why would you think the ESG rule just covers asteroids under part of that section, and if so why the part you are thinking? If anything I would have said it covered asteroid fields not individual ones, as individual ones have hit points where as the ESG rule seems to be covering objects that were not given hit points (like asteroids in fields) and therefore are to be treat as infinite hit points .

We only had it affect offensive bursts, as that is where the esg/asteroid rule is.

Certainly LDR in asteroids was interesting when we had a campaign with them in. Asteroids helped neuter their power somewhat. But whilst I had dust areas I don't remember whether we did dust/esg.

[Cadmus02]

One potential difference between asteroids and asteroid fields is the number of objects. Say my Hydran ship is in a hex with an asteroid and gets ESG'ed. I believe that half the ESG damage would go onto the ship and half the asteroid. With an asteroid field there could be one object (the whole field) or many, many objects. A ship in an asteroid field could take 0, 1 or 1/2 the full damage from an ESG.

[Cadmus02]

It happened again tonight, we tried to use ESGs beside an asteroid field. I don't know if it's a common occurrence or if our group is zany. An asteroid is considered one target for an ESG (the biggest), but we where unable to adjudicate how to deal with a field.

[mjwest]

The answer to the asteroid hex / ESG interaction was published in Communique 119. The answer is:
Q: What happens when an ESG encounters an asteroid or dust hex? The rules don't say!
A: Deduct two points for each asteroid hex and one point for each dust hex the ESG strikes. Ships and other units struck by the ESG come after these deductions. A ship or other unit in an asteroid or dust hex is a separate target from the asteroids or dust.

[mjwest]

At the risk of contradicting the game designer, no, an asteroid will NOT negate an ESG field.

The specific wording:

Note that moons, asteroids, planets, comets, and other such astronomical bodies are treated as the largest target and require an infinite number of damage points to destroy.

Taken in context of the rest of the rule, this means that an asteroid (or moon, planet, or comet) are merely the largest object in the group of objects in the range of the ESG. As such, they take their damage in turn with the other objects, the damage they take has no effect, and they will never be destroyed. But, other eligible objects WILL get damaged.

Example: An asteroid, an enemy ship, and two drones are all one hex from a Lyran ship. The Lyran ship uses all five points of available power and generates a 20 point ESG offensive burst. We first order the objects in order of size: drone, drone, ship, asteroid. Then we use the damage procedure outlined in (5N2d) to apply the damage, meaning each object takes damage in order until the damage points run out. After four rounds of damage, each of the objects has receive four damage points, destroying the drones. The ship and asteroid then take two more damage points each.

In the end, the asteroid did NOT negate the ESG damage, but it did force six damage points (those taken by the asteroid) to be expended ineffectively.

Example 2: An asteroid and an enemy ship are one hex from a Lyran ship. The Lyran ship uses all five points of available power and generates a 20 point ESG offensive burst. In this case, the ship will take 10 points of damage, and the asteroid will take 10 points of damage. This time, the asteroid caused half of the damage to be "wasted". But the other 10 points of damage still hit the ship.

Now, as to how to treat an asteroid hex, I will have to ask Steve again. But I feel it is important to stress that a single asteroid (or comet or moon or even an entire planet) will not negate an ESG burst.

[Steve Cole]

Reviewing the situation it appears that Mike was right.