ESGs in Federation Commander

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:55 am

Hi guys,

I've been a fan of Lyrans since I first saw them way back when a certain SFB based video game (that was awesome) came out.

I've used them in SFB where the rules are... complicated... to say the least; and now I've just read through their rules for FedCom.

Whoa! Feels like a completely different weapon just from reading. I've got to say, though, that thematically I love it. They actually appear to work like *expanding* sphere generators now instead of insta-bubble generators. That said, it seems the FedCom version is a burst (no duration) that only seems to have a radius of 1? Did I get that right?

So I guess my main question is (for all you Lyran players): how do they play out compared to the traditional ESG? I haven't had the chance to find out first hand yet, and I'm a bit concerned about their effectiveness versus fighters/shuttles - something I used to scoff at. With a range of only adjacent hexes, the fighters are already close enough to completely maul you. Ramming attacks also seem like they'd be far more difficult to manage as well.

Am I worried about nothing - or have ESG gotten the nerf bat?

Thanks for any thoughtful replies

mjwest · Post by **mjwest** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:19 am

You understand the operation correctly.

As for their effectiveness, I will let others answer.

Magnum357 · Post by **Magnum357** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:41 am

I've only used ESG's in a very limited basis, so I'm not a real expert here, but I will give my opinion on this.

First, I use to play SFB on the computer years ago and I remember that the ESG was a very useful and versitle system for the lyrans. Players most common tactic with ESG's on the computer are to "RAM" there targets usually on Offense and mostly to swat drones/fighters defensively with Radius 2 or 3 ESG settings. At that range, even Hydran Stingers have a hard time using all there weapons on you. In my experience, that was the most common tactic with online computer SFB.

When I discovered Fed Commander board game, I was suprised by the simplicty of the design compared to SFB. SFB ESG rules are rather complicated. Fed Commander ESG's only have a range 1 radius so this tactic doesn't work so well. In the games I've played, most fighters will be able to get to the Lyran effectively.

Those are my observations on Fed Commander ESGs.

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:03 am

I was afraid of that... I've gotten kind of used to the thought of Rad3 32 impulse bubbles. It felt like being the fighter-killers was sort of their niche. Now I'm wondering how to go forward, because without that option and offense being more difficult to pull off... aren't Lyrans just Klingons with less disruptors? At least on paper. Again... I haven't had the opportunity to try it out yet.

Thanks for your feedback guys, I hope some more people weigh in on the matter

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:37 am

Properly-employed, FedCom ESGs are brutal.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:30 pm

I play Lyrans more often than any other empire in Fed Comm, and even with the reduced radius - they are still brutal weapons when properly employed.

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:42 pm

I don't suppose either of you would like to share some tips? I need to unlearn some SFB it seems

Cadmus02 · Post by **Cadmus02** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:51 pm

I've played with and against FedCom ESGs quite a bit. In smaller games, say around 2 ships per side I think they are more effective than in SFB. Because of how impulse order works it is much harder to do things like use shuttles to soften their blow. Also in FedCom you never run into the situation where your opponent outruns your ESG until it dies out since you don't deploy it until it can hit.

The down side is that they are trickier to deploy in larger battles. The ESG is no longer hollow, so you can't have your ESG ship stacked with friendlies. Your opponent will want to stack their ships as it blunts the ESG damage over multiple ships.

As for tactics I most commonly see Lyrans make passes at high speed, allowing them to close the distance quickly. Most of the time the Lyran can survive closing and devastate their target at range 1. The most success I've had at stopping a Lyran from doing this is Feds with overloaded photons.

All the utility functions are still there and enhanced. They can block Hydran hellbores and drones but it's even better now because you don't have to guess the impulse of impact. Since I prefer smaller games I feel that the ESG is more powerful than it is in SFB.

djdood · Post by **djdood** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:24 pm

Not ignoring your request, Itharus.
I just tend to opt out of any tactics discussions that go beyond the very basics. I'm proud of my role as kind of an SFU lore historian and technical guy, but my record as an actual player is so bad that I'd never want to give my (bad) advice.

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:52 pm

Cadmus has the gist of it.
Unlike SFB, where they can be set to range and then used as a ram...
You have to get up close and personal to use them in Fed Comm; if you intend to bash the enemy into submission.

Opponents do tend to stack ships and this does spread the damage out. The best counter to this is to use them on single ships... typically one that has been previously damaged and has been slowed.

The biggest trick is to know when to use them.
I've seen many a game lost because the Lyran player used his ESG too soon. If you're willing to sit on them and wait - a prime opportunity will eventually show. And if you have ESGs available - WHAM!
If you don't have ESGs available (because you used them too early), then instead of wham... it's more like... DAG NABIT!

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:42 pm

So treat them like held overloaded photons but with basically no range? Gah! If only Lyrans could turn like Klingons

Energy you put into an ESG in FedCom remains there indefinitely - through turns - until it is either used or the ESG is disabled, right?

Scoutdad · Post by **Scoutdad** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:06 am

Itharus wrote:Energy you put into an ESG in FedCom remains there indefinitely - through turns - until it is either used or the ESG is disabled, right?

Correct

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:18 pm

I don't know of you have taken a look at any of the Middle Years rules or Ship Cards yet, but one Lyran-related note from that era is that the ESGs in use at the time had no capacitors. Unlike in the Main Era, a Middle Years Lyran ship had to allocate power to its ESGs at the instant of activation - and with ships that had somewhat less power on hand than their later General War-era successors.

But then, their rivals at the time had their own issues. Middle Years drones only go Speed 16; most Kzinti ships of the era had fewer disruptors, while many of their cruisers had fewer warp engine boxes; while the Hydrans also had less powerful warp engines, plus no hellbores, while their Stinger-1s had only phaser-3s instead of the Stinger-2's phaser-G. Oh, and the DDSC/LDR ships had no gatlings yet either.

If you were interested to see what the Middle Years Lyran fleet looks like, their ships are in Briefing #2, as well as in B2 Ship Pack F.

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:30 am

I'm freshly transitioning from SFB to FC due to life changes, so no, I haven't checked that out yet. All in good time, though

Itharus · Post by **Itharus** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:18 pm

I've been giving it some thought...

Would a vertically staggered (say, echelon left or the like) formation of Lyran ships positioned each just outside of ESG range from each other but close enough to cover the gaps be an effective means of helping ensure enemy ships get hit by at least one ESG? Almost like "laying a web" of ESG coverage.

I imagine it would take some fancy flying and superb timing... but at a glance I suspect it might work. Granted, if people try to stack ships in a single hex it could still be a pain in the butt.

About hex-stacking: I don't have the rule book on hand as I'm posting this - but wasn't there a rule about only a limited number of ships firing out of a hex when stacked? Or am I misremembering?