Shield burn through clarification please

[ElizabethB]

I just want to clarify.
so its only ONE burn-through point if the volley that hits the shield is 10 more points.
If a volley is like 20 or more points, it is STILL ONE point of burn through damage on that shield?

That appears to be what was said.

Also, apparently, disruptors have more burn through, but only disruptors.

[mjwest]

Just to be clear:

- Burn-through produces a single point of internal damage (which bypasses armor) no matter how much damage was done, as long as it was at least 10. (And failed to penetrate the shield, of course.)

- The disruptor exception only applies to Power Absorber panels (3G2b). When burn-through happens on shields (3C8), there is no exception for disruptors, and they do a single point of internal damage just like every other weapon.

[rjl518]

thank you Commodore

[ElizabethB]

Just to be clear:

- Burn-through produces a single point of internal damage (which bypasses armor) no matter how much damage was done, as long as it was at least 10. (And failed to penetrate the shield, of course.)

- The disruptor exception only applies to Power Absorber panels (3G2b). When burn-through happens on shields (3C8), there is no exception for disruptors, and they do a single point of internal damage just like every other weapon.

Ah, thanks. I had misread the rule and didn't have the rulebook at hand to double check.

[Kang]

Yes, that's correct. No matter how many points hit the shield, if the shield does not go completely down, one point of burnthrough is scored. You can have a maximum of one burnthrough point per volley.

[rjl518]

so its possible for a fed CA to fire all phaser-1, it does at least 10 points of shield damage, so it does 1 point of burn through.

then the CA fires two overloaded photons, they both hit so that does another burn thorugh point

so every volley that does over 10 points of shield damage does 1 point of burn through?

[Scoutdad]

so its possible for a fed CA to fire all phaser-1, it does at least 10 points of shield damage, so it does 1 point of burn through.

then the CA fires two overloaded photons, they both hit so that does another burn thorugh point

so every volley that does over 10 points of shield damage does 1 point of burn through?

Yes, and no...

A 'volley' is defined as ALL of the damage from a single ships direct fire weapons hitting a ship on a single shield, during a single impulse.

If a Fed CA fired an Alpha Strike...
All Phasers and all Photons in the same impulse, any damage scored would be scored as a single volley.
To make two volleys out of them, you'd have to fire during two separate impulses...

Or...

fire weapons from two separate ships at the same target in the same impulse.
Then, all damage from Ship 1 would be a volley, and all damage from ship 2 would be a volley

And drone impacts, if any would be a separate volley in themselves.

[Scoutdad]

And don't forget.
The defender selects the order in which the volleys are resolved.
This may not sound important, but it can be.

Say you get hit by three different ships.
You have 26 points of shield remaining and the volleys are:
12 points, 12 points, and 25 points.

You could take the two twelve point volleys first and receive a total of 22 points of shield damage and 2 internal damage from burn-through. Then the 25 point volley scores the last 4 shield and 21 internal damage points for a total of 23 points of damage.

Or you score the 25 point volley first, taking 24 shield damage and 1 internal, followed by the remaining two volleys of 12 and 12, which score 2 damage on shields and 22 internals for a total of 23 internal damage points.

As Mr. Myagi would say, "Is same, same...?"

Wrong.
In the first example, the two burn through points are rolled as separate hits, giving additional chances to hit those all important 1st column power or weapon results - especially if the opponent has targeted power or weapons.
Method one will generate 5 rolls on the DAC
1 for burn through 1
1 for burn through 2
1 for points 1 to 10 of the big volley
1 for points 11 to 20 of the big volley
1 for point 21 of the big volley.

Method two only generates 4 rolls:
1 for burn through 1

1 for points 1 to 10 of the big volley
1 for points 11 to 20 of the big volley
1 for points 21 and 22 of the big volley

It doesn't sound like a lot, but if you target specific systems, there is a 50% chance to hit the desired system... and over the course of a game, losing an extra power or weapon system (or more) each turn can be decisive.

[mjwest]

so its possible for a fed CA to fire all phaser-1, it does at least 10 points of shield damage, so it does 1 point of burn through.

then the CA fires two overloaded photons, they both hit so that does another burn thorugh point

so every volley that does over 10 points of shield damage does 1 point of burn through?

Let's unpack this a bit.

First, if the phasers and photons are fired in the same impulse at the same target, then they are a single volley. To be separate volleys, the phasers and photons would have to be fired at different targets, or on different impulses.

Second, if a Fed CA fires at least 10 points of damage from phasers and two overloaded photons that hit at a single target in a single impulse, there will be no burn-through, as that volley is going to penetrate a shield and do normal internals.

Third, two fully overloaded photons by themselves are probably doing normal internals, for that matter.

[Sgt_G]

If one ship fires Phasers and a second ship fires Photons at the same target at the same time, that would be two separate volleys, yes???

[ElizabethB]

If one ship fires Phasers and a second ship fires Photons at the same target at the same time, that would be two separate volleys, yes???

Yes.

[mjwest]

If one ship fires Phasers and a second ship fires Photons at the same target at the same time, that would be two separate volleys, yes???

My reading of the example was that it was a single CA that was firing. In that case, the phasers and photons fired at a single target in a single impulse (from that single CA) result in a single volley.

If, however, there are two CAs, one firing phasers and the other firing photons, then, yes, that will result in two volleys.

[rjl518]

but what if the same CA fires phasers on one impulse and then photons on a second impulse...

is that considered one volley or two?

so does that mean one burn through or two burn throughs

[ElizabethB]

but what if the same CA fires phasers on one impulse and then photons on a second impulse...

is that considered one volley or two?

so does that mean one burn through or two burn throughs

Weapons fired on different impulses are separate volleys.

So if you fire phasers on impulse 3 and photons on impulse 4, the phasers would be their own volley, and then later the photons would be their own volley.

A volley is:

* All the seeking weapons that hit a single shield on the same impulse (so seeking weapons that hit different shields are separate volleys)

* All of the direct fire weapons a single ship fires on a single impulse

[mjwest]

Elizabeth is correct.

For direct fire, all weapons fired from a single ship, at a single target, in a single impulse, which hit a single shield, is a single volley. The amount of weapons fire doesn't matter, as long as the stated conditions are met, it is a single volley. If anything fails to meet those stated conditions, then you will have two more more volleys, depending on how the conditions are not met.

So, if two ships fire on a single target, in a single impulse, and hit the same shield, that will result in two volleys, as that is two ships firing, not just one. Each ship's fire will result in a single volley per ship, though, because each ship's fire fulfills the conditions.

Or, if a single ship fires on a single target, in two different impulses, hitting the same shield, that will also result in two volleys, as that is fire on two different impulses. The fire on each impulse will result in a single volley per impulse, again, because the fire on each impulse fulfills the conditions.

Just remember:
- Single ship firing
- Single target of the fire
- Single impulse
- Single shield
All direct fire that can be grouped by the above conditions results in a volley.

Note that there are expansions of this: if a single weapon can affect more than a single shield (e.g. PPD and hellbore), then there can be multiple volleys. (That's why I included the shield item above.)

There is an important exception for weapons that cannot use directed targeting (as described in (3D4d)). However, I am glossing over that for now. (It really only applies to ESGs used offensively.)

For seeking weapons, the definition of a volley is a little different. It's conditions are:
- Single impulse
- Single shield
So, with seeking weapons, the sub-pulse of impact and the firing ship are irrelevant. All that matters is what seeking weapons are resolving damage in a given Defensive Fire Phase. (Per shield.)

For example, our hypothetical CA has two drones impact on his #3 shield on a given impulse. Assuming he can't stop them (no power available for phasers or tractors and his drone rack has no ADD ammunition), both drones will be resolved as a single volley no matter who fired them. (It could have been both from a single ship, or it could have been from two different ships. It doesn't matter.) Even if it was, let's say, a drone and a plasma-F torpedo that impacted on the #3 shield on that impulse, they would still only result in a single volley when their damage is resolved that impulse.

If, however, our hypothetical CA had one drone impact on his #3 shield and another impact on his #4 shield on a given impulse, then each drone would become its own volley, for a total of two volleys.

There is one exception to this. If an impacted drone has been held in a tractor, and that tractor is disabled as a result of damage, then the now released drone is its own volley, even if the damage comes through the same shield the drone has impacted.