Skill Question: History

[Sgt Major Al Beddow]

In the SFU, most of Academy/Basic Training careers each have a skill called "History (Recent Empire)". "Recent Empire" means recent history for your empire (Federation, Klingon, Gorn, etc.) There is also a great deal of knowledge about past civilizations and even the races which were the for runners to several of the SFU empires (Lion Kings for the Lyrans/Kzinti's).

Of course the farther back you go, the spottier the available information is. On many planets centuries of historical records lay in physical form, never having been transferred into the collective data banks of the empire they are in. Also there are numerous planets with unexplored ruins just waiting to have an archaeological dig come and uncover them.

Thus I submit the following skill for "History" (removes Science [Archaeology] and Science [History])

History
The History skill incorporates knowing facts about past and recent events and discoveries, researching in historical archives, and on site physical archeological expeditions.
-- Recent (Empire): The history of your native empire going back to just before Y0. You might know facts about some history older than then but the difficulty goes up the older it is (GM's discretion).
Remembering facts about a significant event: Average (8+) History (recent) check (1D x seconds, EDU).
-- Ancient (Empire): The study of ancient civilizations, both techniques of investigation in un-digitized physical archives and excavations of archeological digs..
Combing through historical archives looking for personal accounts of a battle: Hard (10+) History (ancient) (1D x 10 hours, EDU).
Working an archeological dig: Hard (10+) History (ancient) check (1D x 10 Months, EDU).

[Stan Shinn]

I presume you're also removing "Science [History]"?

As I mentioned on the Facebook chat thread, I'm not a big fan of breaking out history as its own skill, while leaving other skills like linguistics, physics, psychology, etc. as specializations.

If you do go this route, I would just call the specializations 'Recent' and 'Ancient' or maybe 'Modern' and 'Ancient' (the latter being what you'd call it in school). Not sure why you'd have '(Empire)' if there isn't a non-Empire specialization, and it seems to suggest a sub-specialization naming convention.

[Albiegamer]

I presume you're also removing "Science [History]"?

Yes, thank you I fixed that. Never rush to finish a post when your better half is busy needing you to do something *now*.

As I mentioned on the Facebook chat thread, I'm not a big fan of breaking out history as its own skill, while leaving other skills like linguistics, physics, psychology, etc. as specializations.

Stan Shinn
I don't know why History in SFU would have more weight than it does in Traveller. Science (Archeology), Science (History), and Science (Physics) are all given equal weight in MgT. By breaking history out separately you're saying history is more relevant and has more weight the other Science specializations.

A thing to remember: History has been an important skill in the SFU, Included in career templates etc. We are actually taking two skills and combining them into one: History.

If you do go this route, I would just call the specializations 'Recent' and 'Ancient' or maybe 'Modern' and 'Ancient' (the latter being what you'd call it in school). Not sure why you'd have '(Empire)' if there isn't a non-Empire specialization, and it seems to suggest a sub-specialization naming convention.

The SFU is much vaster than the setting of the Third Imperium.
- - A single sector in the Third Imperium is 40 parsecs tall (Rimward to Coreward) and 32 parsects wide (Spinward to Anti-Spinward), each parsec is a single hex.
- It is 8 sectors tall, 16 sectors wide. So 256 parsecs tall 640 parsecs wide.
- The total area of the Third Imperium is 163,840 square parsecs.
- - The SFU map is 19 hexes tall and 60 hexes wide. Each hex is 500 parsecs across (flat edge to flat edge).
- The SFU is 9,500 parsecs tall by 30,000 parsecs wide. The SFU is 285,000,000 square parsecs.

The SFU is 1,739.5 times larger in area than the Third Imperium.


[continued next post]

[Albiegamer]

[..continued]


There are 'ancient' races that uplifted certain 'recent' races. Quoting page 18 of GURPS 4th Ed Prime Directive Core Rulebook-revised:

Precursors
These beings existed in the time before the current era. Just how many there were and what time periods they existed, and what they did, is not clearly understood.

The best known of these are the "Old Kings", who ruled Federation and Klingon space until about two centuries before the General War. These beings used the Klingons (as well as the Dunkars, Hilidarians, and other species) as starship crews. When the "Old Kings" left, leaving abandoned starships in orbit over Klinshai, the Klingons built chemical-energy rockets to regain access to space.
The "Spirit Kings" took the Hydrans into space in much the same way, but when they departed (at the same time as the "Old Kings"), they left the Hydrans in possession of primitive starships.

The Gorns refer to the "Lizard Kings" as the beings that transported them to their three homeworlds (and to the doomed planet of Paravia) at least 13,000 years before the General War.

The Lyrans and Kzintis are known to be genetically related to each other (and to the Jwarundils and the doglike Carnivons) and may have been seeded on their planets by the beings known only as the "Leopard Kings" at some time perhaps 100,000 years before the General War.
Whether any of these beings still exist is a matter of conjecture, and great interest to the powers of the SFU.

There is a VAST area with a deep history over millions of possible planets. Even with massive computer data banks there is still more to discover and learn about the past than is known.

If you do go this route, I would just call the specializations 'Recent' and 'Ancient' or maybe 'Modern' and 'Ancient' (the latter being what you'd call it in school). Not sure why you'd have '(Empire)' if there isn't a non-Empire specialization, and it seems to suggest a sub-specialization naming convention.

The terms currently used in the SFU are "Recent" and "Ancient".

With the vastness of the SFU certain areas of knowledge are too broad to be 'one skill fits every situation'. EX: Klingon Military Law is quite a bit different that Military Law in the Federation. There is a certain amount of 'unfamiliarity' when a Federation Military advocate works a case involving Klingon Military Law.

There will be in the rules a DM-1 for dealing with a skill that has differences between empires, like warp engines. The default skill when putting the first point into say, Advocate (Military) will dddefault to their own empire wiith subsequent levels of the skill able to go into Advocate (Militaary) of any empire.

[Stan Shinn]

Repost from the Facebook chat:

I see what you're saying, but I still have my same opinion as before; seems like an unnecessary departure from Mongoose Traveller rules and their current approach to History as simply a single Science skill specialization, making History more important that other skills like Physics and Linguistics (I'd argue the latter are actually more significant to Star Trek type tropes). I've seen Science Officers and Language experts in the Star Trek shows, but never a Historian on the crew.

[Albiegamer]

Repost from the Facebook chat:
I've seen Science Officers and Language experts in the Star Trek shows, but never a Historian on the crew.

History has always been important in ST/SFU. While I remembered this I needed to make sure I remembered correctly.. from https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Historian

Federation starships of the 23rd century could include historians among their officers. Lieutenant Marla McGivers, for instance, served as a historian aboard the USS Enterprise. When the Enterprise encountered the 20th century sleeper ship SS Botany Bay, Captain Kirk commented that this was a chance for "that historian to do something for a change" (TOS: "Space Seed")

Also,
You can not have a specialty of a specialty of a specialty, and with the size of the SFU each empire would put a significantly strong emphasis towards focusing on *their* history over those of other empires, and have their own perspective on history in general. History is written by the victor. In our world China focuses on its history and its viewpoint on general history, just as in the US the focus is primarily about US history and presented from our viewpoint.

What we in the US call the American Revolution/the fight for independence the UK calls the revolt in the colonies.

[Albiegamer]

**********************
Jean and I talked quite a bit last night on the History skill, and then again this morning.

Because History and Archeology really need to have the specialty being focused on one empire (you can put levels into multiple empires) we've split them out from each other, but they are their own skill.
**********************

[AndrewTravers]

One idea on this front was to apply something along the lines of what is done in "Shadowrun" where a character would have a number of "knowledge skills" based on a characters intellect. They could be things like history, additional languages, street knowledge (specific to a specific area), astropolitical affairs, fine wines, music, and so forth.

It gives the player an opportunity to pick skills that are not just centered on min/maxing their character if using a "pick your skills" model, and encourages a fleshing out of the character without the expense of perceived lessened effectiveness.

Someone posted in response that Prime directive doesn't really work that way, people don't min-max. I suspect they haven't met people like my band of murder hoboes <ahem> I mean "aspiring starfleet officers"... yet....

[Albiegamer]

There is a 'point buy' system in the Traveller Companion (not sure yet if we'll include it), and most of all is Prime Rule Zero: The GM can do what they want at their table

[kehrer1701]

I vote for an alternate point system, if only to allow more flexibility in the character creation process, or for those coming to this game from another point system RPG.