Been a while since I last did an SSD. This has been a project I've had on the shelf for a while, figured I finish it up...

WYN Hammerhead Fleet Tug: An unbuilt tug design contrived in early plans for the War of Return that never made it off the drawing board. As plans for the Usurper's return evolved, it became apparent that a fleet tug was really an extravagance and not required for a campaign of with the scope and goals of the War of Return. Had the WYN economy been able to support a more drawn-out conflict, such a ship might have been build. However, the ship never progressed beyond the design phase.

The Tug could be used in a campaign setting (the real reason I designed it) and would use modified Klingon pods. I've done SSDs for the two most obvious combinations: The Battle Tug and the Carrier Tug.

A ship for one of the future "R-something" modules? Comments?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:22 am: Edit

Cool. Great name and a fine design.

Two things:

Might want to mirror the Battle Pods.

Those Carrier pods are the double weight CVA pods right? (Man, it's been so long since I've looked at Klingon pods but shouldn't those pods have 5 fighters each?)

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 02:54 am: Edit

Loren, you're right, the CVA pods should make that one a 1.5 mover. I've corrected the SSD. The Klingon CV pods do indeed have only 5 fighters each - something the WYN probably wouldn't bother with in Y185+.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Perhaps unless it's all they could get their paws on.

They do tend to modify everything, perhaps they would modify the CV pods to carry one more fighter each (how hard would that be for them?) for a full 12 fighter squadron.

That would still be pretty deadly in the Zone but not the Big Kicker they would really need for the War Of Return (they would need the heavy CVA you propose).

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:29 pm: Edit

Here's a thought - how about copies of Kzinti Pods instead of Klingon pods? Gives the tug the ability to use any Kzinti pods "obtained" during the war of return. We already have Lyran and Romulan tugs using Klingon pods (mostly conjectural in the Romulan case) - would make for something a bit different.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Interesting critter.

As an aestetic thing, I might have left the engines where they were and tucked the pods under the wings, but taking some Orion SAL influence is quite appropos also.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Jeremy, yes that would be cool. I could see this ship being a DB units too. It would soften areas before a fleet exits the zone.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Regarding the Klingon Hanger Pods: the original P-H5 pods only carried 5 fighters each, but starting Y172 they were converted to P-M11 pods, carrying 6 fighters each. The P-M11 appears on page 50 of CL #26.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Made the switch to Kzinti pods. Here are the updated SSDs (you may need to hit "refresh" to see the new versions)...

WYN Hammerhead Tug
Battle Tug
Carrier Tug
Heavy Carrier Tug

Not really a substantial change in the case of the carriers (I did create a CV type and changed the original to a CVA), but the BT is significantly nastier. You loose the extra batteries and 4-single shuttle bays of the Klingon configuration (4 Scatterpacks at once!), but you gain a lot of drones in the D-racks, ADDs, and 4 more Ph-3s. Not a ship to take lightly.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 02:53 pm: Edit

One other change I've considered is making the wing drone racks option mounts instead. I would think that you would almost always use B-racks in there in any case, but it would allow room for ph-1s, ADDs, or some goofy assymetrical weapon loads. Any thoughts?

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Jeremy,

You do nice work. I like the Battle Tug with Kzinti pods.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Just for comparison, here is a link to the orignial BT version, using Klingon Pods...

WYN Hammerhead Battle Tug w/ Klingon B4 Pods

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:00 pm: Edit

I'd also go with the two pods tucked under the wings utilizing the Orion influence -- it gives it a more hammerhead look.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:01 pm: Edit

John, thanks for the reminder - I had forgotten all about those.

Joseph, glad you like it!

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:04 pm: Edit

I imagine this ship will be similar in configuration to the Kzinti tug. Shorter hull with broad wings and engines out on the ends. Pods would be carried under the wings, just no clean way to show it on the SSD. Not unlike the Salvage Tug either.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:18 pm: Edit

The only thing is that as is there is no WYN fish that has any engines mounted outboard. They would have to engineer new wing pod mounts AND new external wing engine mounts -- very expensive for development.

It a good original design, so as a staffer, I could support the internal congifuration as is but not with the external engines.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:28 pm: Edit

But the Salvage cruiser DOES have engines mounted outboard. WYN fish ships are based on Orion designs. The Orion tug in R9 is based on the Salvage cruiser. Seems plausible to me. I'd rather have a ship that looks interesting (and different) rather than just a WYN cruiser with pods under the wings. The wings would need to be of a different design in any case, engines or not.

By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Just out of curiosity, why does it have straight drone racks instead of the fish ship option mounts? I would think the options would be especially handy on the tug, considering the wide range of roles the ship can take.

Also, how about expanding the shuttles to 4? This would allow the use of an HTS. It would also give it enough shuttles to have the option to mount a casual fighter or two.

Nice design.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Andy, see above - I'm debating putting option mounts in place of the drones. Expanding the shuttle bays is a thought - will look at that. Don't think Casual fighters are really necessary, but the space for an HTS makes sense.

On the engine placement thing - a picture is always better than words. See this picture of a WYN Orca. If this same configuration is used for the tug, with pods under the wings, they will block the engine-mounted disruptors. The engines need to move. Putting them on the wings gets them out from behind the pods.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Need some recommendations on how to increase the shuttle bays to two each. The easy answer is to just stretch the outline to make room, but I'd rather not go that route if I can help it. Reduce the hull (down to 8 - light for a tug?), lose the APR, central shuttle bay (not very "WYN-like")? A stretch may end up being the only option.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 05:07 pm: Edit

What might be a more plausable unit is an LTT. You might consider creating one in addition to this design. It might fit in with the story line too. The full Tug was too much but the LTT would serve the primary purpose of Fleet support and utilize those pods they have access to.

By Jeff Laikind (J_Laikind) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Jeremy,
Neat design. An additional factor in favor of your engine mounting is single pod use. The Kzinti and Klingon tugs can mount a single pod centerline. If the pods are split too far apart, then the centerline option will be eliminated, and the tug would be required to carry two pods like the ISC Tug.

Seeing both the Kzinti and Klingon Battle pod options made me want to see a version with one of each .

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Shall we begin the countdown until Jeremy, Mike or Tony builds a mini?

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 06:18 am: Edit

OK fellas, I've updated the four SSDs above. They now have option mounts (instead of drones) in the wings and expanded shuttle bays. Didn't bother updating the version with Klingon pods.

An LTT is certainly do-able, probably an Orca with some straightforward modification. As for a mini, maybe after the New Year when I get some time. I haven't worked on any minis in about six months. If Mike or Tony would like to take a stab at it, I'll be happy to exchange notes on how I think this thing should look.

Going back out to sea tomorrow for about a week. Its unlikely given the ship's schedule (and my life as OPS Officer) that I will get much of a chance to check in on this thread until we return to port. If you guys don't hear from me for a few days, that's why. Keep the great feedback coming!

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:55 pm: Edit

In that case I'll wish you a Happy Thanksgiving now, Jeremy.

The LTT does make sense for the War of Return, because the Usurper can't depend on a tug with cargo pods coming from the regular Kzinti fleet to his side loaded with spare drones. He'd probably not have a cache hidden away on some asteroid, since WYN cargo ships and the Aux ships are too slow to go through the radiation barrier.

I have to re-read my Vudar supplement, but would the Vudar, who deal with heavy radiation, have problems like the other races if they were to enter the WYN radiation zone? If not, the WYN have a lot to worry about in that there are ships that can strike as soon as they enter. Having the LTT carrying battle pods might be something necessry to stop them.