SVC: Drogues: Could a Seeking Weapon drogue carry a combination of drones / plasma and ASMs?

Edited C rack limitation into above listing.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Robert: yes, it could, but it can only fire the ASMs by the "one at a time" rule. If there is a mix of weapons, and you use the "fire them all" mode, the ASMs ignore this and don't launch.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Plasma-D rack w/ ASM question.

Lets suppose I have an Orion DBR with Aegis, and 5 Plasma-D racks (each with 1 ASM loaded)

Am I still restricted to having 2 Plasma-D racks in Offensive Mode to fire the ASMs at ships?

(Isn't that the limitation of Offensive Plasma Rack firings? 2/turn, can't cite rule number)

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Just ran a quick solo test of ASMs. Six ASM equipped Kzinti MRN-D's against six Lyran PFs. To keep things simple, only standard PFs were used (no leader or scout, no shield refits).

Kzins paid 1 housekeeping, 1 EM, 2 ECM, 7 move, 4 OL Disr. Net EW was 4 ECM, 2 ECCM (plus EM).

Lyrans paid 1 housekeeping, 7 move, 4 OL Disr, 2 Std Disr, 2 ECCM. Net EW was 6 ECCM.

Both flotillas stacked in one hex; the Kzinti didn't bother keeping the range open turn 1 so they could follow some drones in since they wanted to use EM to close from 8 to 5. Kzinti stayed on EM until range 6, with either range 4 or 5 coming in the next impulse (depending on the Lyran move). Lyrans held fire due to the EW shift.

Lyrans chose to go to R4 (since they had two Disr to the Kzin one). Kzinti fired the works; Lyrans held back their phasers.

Each Kzinti PF targeted one Lyran PF. Lyrans concentrated their fire, firing 3 OL and 3 Std disruptors at each of two PFs.

Kzinti roll well for ASMs (about average hits, but lots of 6's on the damage dice), badly on disruptors (two of six hit). The Lyran PF's took 36, 26, 34, 41, 19 and 17 damage. Lyran gunnery isn't great; the targeted Kzinti PFs take 24 and 16 damage.

All Lyrans use their reserve power for reinforcement. After damage resolution, three are little more than hulks, two are badly damaged (though the PF that took 26 takes only a single right warp engine hit, which destroys only two boxes of the pack) and one can still reach speed 31.

The Kzinti use reserve power on the PF that takes 24 and save it on the other PF but lose the battery. One of their damaged PFs has two warp remaining, the other has four.

The Kzinti turn off. The surviving phasers in the Lyran squadron, firing through a new shield at range three, wreck the heavily damaged Kzin. The Lyrans then turn and run, disengaging by acceleration with the three PFs that are still capable of it at the end of the turn.

Net result: Kzinti losses 1 crippled, 1 damaged; Lyran losses 3 destroyed, 1 crippled, 2 disengaged.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Well yeah! Its better than an OL Disr and cost no power; were you expecting something else?

By Jeff Williams (Jeff) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 02:38 am: Edit

I still think rack-launced ASMs are broken. I'm gonna run this by BattleGroup Dallas tomorrow. Try to see if I can get them to playtest this.

By Craig Horvath (Rslayer) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 03:45 am: Edit

Just read through Robert's write up, noticed that ASM are effected by ECM now...is that correct?....as I recall, they used the ADD's no ECM rule.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 10:03 am: Edit

Cause sometimes it's fun to beat on something broken, demonstrate exactly how it is broken, and come up with ways top fix it.

Remind me to tell ya about the original Souldra playtest sometime

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 10:47 am: Edit

I thought we changed the combat results table on the ASM to:

Range 1 = 1-4
Range 2 = 1-4
Range 3 = 1-3
Range 4 = 1-3
Range 5 = 1-2

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Robert Cole. Re: C-rack. The firing rate of the C-rack should allow for two ASM within 12 impulses over a turn break but not in one turn.

SVC: Yes, you mentioned you liked the reverse table idea but I don't remember it being offical. That new table is vastly better and more logical, I think.

Also, I was thinking that perhaps the ASM should take up one SW control channel for the impulse it is fired. So if you are controling a wave of drones (max control) firing the ASM would cause you to lose one drone, but it wouldn't prevent you from launching drones on a later impulse. This would particularly effect Ships like the Kzinti and possibly give some interesting options to the defending player.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:24 pm: Edit

SVC:

Clarification of C rack firing rate over turn break.
Cost of ASM replacing drone could be clarified.
Cost of ASM replacing Pl-D.
Cost of ASM bought as Commander's Option - not replacing anything.

Can ASMs replace Pl-Fs on fighters, defsats, captors, drogues. If so, what is the cost and replacement ratio: 1 - 1.5? 1 - 1? 1 - 2?

42

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:36 pm: Edit

I thought it was 8 impulses over a turn break?

Let's try the reverse table.

Ok, I can dig the SW channel thing.

ASM cost, let's call it 3 points. Available Y175 or later. (ADD is unrelated and Y165.)

Cost to replace drone, 3 minus cost of drone.

Cost to replace plasma D: let's call it 2? 1? Thoughts?

Cost to as commander's option as extra round: 3

Asm's replacing plasma-Fs. Not sure they can do this. ASMs are drone-size/shape and so are plasma-D canisters. Plasma-Fs seem unrelated and (this morning anyway) I don't see ways for ASMs to relace plasma-Fs.

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:37 pm: Edit

SVC. Now they're workable.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:44 pm: Edit

Re: ASMs and Plasma-Fs. Plasma Fs are fully energy weapons though the have a pod for fighter mounting the pod isn't ejected but ejects the torp. Pl-Ds on the other hand eject a pod that then fires the pl-D. I'm no authority and this is just my take.

RE: BPV cost of ASM. 3 BPV battle value/ 2 BPV economic seems right to me.

RE: SW channel thing. WHOO HOO!

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Andy: I'm so glad. We were getting really tired of you insisting on a personal veto over anything that you didn't like.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 01:11 pm: Edit

This listing was done independent of ADB, and if something is listed wrong, it’s all my fault… so:


Anti-Ship Missile

Range				To-Hit:
Range 1	=			1-4
Range 2	=			1-4
Range 3	=			1-3
Range 4	=			1-3
Range 5	=			1-2
Range 6+	=			NA

Availability: ASMs were developed in Y175 by the Kzinti to attempt even more powerful fighter strikes. By the next year, virtually every race in the Quadrant were experimenting with the weapon – even the Eastern (plasma) races.

Operations: ASMs can be launched by any rail or rack that carries a one-space or larger drone or type-D plasma, including drogues, captors, and defense satellites.

A, B, D, G, and H drone racks may fire one ASM per turn - this counts as the one drone launch per turn for these racks.

C racks may only fire one ASM per turn and this counts as one of the two drone launches permitted each turn. Note that a C rack can launch 2 drones or 1 drone + 1 ASM (12 impulses apart) - it may only fire 2 ASMs back-to-back in over a turn break (within the limits of the rack launch rate).

Firing an ASM from an F rack counts as a drone launch, and the F rack cannot fire either a drone or ASM on the following turn. Firing an ASM from one F rack does not effect the firing of ASMs from another F rack - even if those racks are on the same ship / base.

E racks and ADD racks cannot fire ASMs.

DefSats and Captor mines launch ASMs within their normal drone launching rates.

Plasma D racks may fire ASMs at the rate of 1 per launcher per turn.

ASMs cannot be placed on scatter packs.

ASMs can be used on seeking weapon (plasma or drone) drogue but if so can only fire ASMs one at a time.

If a Seeking Weapon drogue carries a combination of drones / plasma and ASMs it can only fire the ASMs by the "one at a time" rule. Use of the "fire them all" modewill be ignored by ASMs.

ASMs may not be used on Plasma F drogues, DefSats, or Captor mines.

ASMs cannot be used from Bomber / Heavy fighter internal bays, though Bombers and Heavy Fighters may carry ASMs on drone rails.

Fighters firing ASMs must have their target within their FA arc.

ASMs on fighters / bombers are treated as Direct Fire weapons, therefore they are active in 8 impulses.

The maximum rate of fire is 1 ASM per fighter per turn.

ASMs cannot be fired within 8 imp of the last ASM launch from that fighter.

ASMs are effected by EW.

Limitations: ASMs cannot fire at drones or fighters (presumably this would translate to ‘Cannot fire at SC6 or smaller.')

ASMs require the use of a Seeking Weapon control channel on the impulse it is fired.

The unit firing an ASM must have active fire control the impulse of launch.

ESGs: ASMs impacting an ESG would be destroyed immediately. Each ASM that hits an ESG field reduces said field 4 points of damage.

Cost: Cost to replace drone, 3 minus cost of drone.
Cost to replace plasma D: let's call it 2
Cost to as commander's option as extra round: 3

Damage (if it hits): 2d6