When we proposed an updated Skiff, the Steves were most insistant that it was unnecessary...

Is the mission important enough to justify an upgraded Security skiff for the post General War period?

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Well, given the increased power of the Orion pirates and the increased prevalence of skid mounte dweapons...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 06:25 pm: Edit

No upgraded skiff. Feds don't need PFs.
Police PFs probably don't have packs. They don't need them.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Another item for this product might be a refitted Bobcat for the LDR - I know they used Bobcats, but I would propose dropping the 2xP-2+2xP-3 phaser suite for 2xP-Gs (the LDR don't use P-2s anyway....). The LDR Bobcat-P could drop the 2xDIS for 2xP-1s (or 2xP-Gs if you want to get sick, leaving it with 4xP-Gs and no other weapons).

You could come out with a P-refit for the Bobcat-A, consistent with other Lyran catamaran hulls: change the 2xP-3s to 2xP-2s. That gives it 4xP-2s, thereby bringing it up to snuff with other PFs' phaser suites.

I'd like to see a more aggressive repair rule for PFs - for instance, the easy access of systems gives the repair system on PFTs, which can only be used on PFs, to repair 2 points per repair box (instead of 1 point). There aren't enough repair boxes on PFTs to make a real difference on battles, except on the campaign level, without some adjustment.

Perhaps I'm just making up stuff to fill out the product.....

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:39 pm: Edit

The "2 Gatling Phaser" PF was dropped when Captain's Edition was made.

It was called the Harrier.

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 08:25 pm: Edit

True, the Harrier lost one of its Ph-Gs, but there still is the Howler with 3 of them.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 08:44 pm: Edit

I'm not really familiar with other races' PFs, so there may be other reconfigurations, but I was noting some viable ones for the Lyran PF, which is the cheapest/weakest in some people's minds. I happen to think a two disruptor PF is just dandy.....

I don't have SSJ - are the trimaran PFs in the "heavy PF" category? It might be interesting to see a non-heavy, trimaran hull with one disruptor, three interceptor-sized (2 box) engines, and three P-1s. FYI, as I understand the no-P-1s-on-PFs argument, it goes something like this: why would you put a P-1 on a PF when there aren't enough around to refit the P-2s on ship hulls?

Well, I think there is a difference between P-2s and P-2s, just like there is a difference between fighter P-Gs and ship P-Gs. You could certainly cap the ranges. Further, the Lyran P-2, given that their an advanced race, and the Andromedan P-2, given that they're an advanced race, are probably different than Klingon P-2s, given that they're a dullard race .

For instance, what's to say that a Lyran P-2 is not an upgraded P-3 with a better capacitor and range, that can still be fired as a P-2? Would make sense in terms of the P refit on Lyran war hulls (whereas it is a replaced system on non-war hulls like the CA, CL, BC, going up to a P-1).

Andromedan P-2s clearly are not P-2s....the whole conservation of energy thing simply wouldn't work out on their ships.....

Yes, it's a slow day at work.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:41 am: Edit

Further to the above, I should have said that weapons systems that have the same effect as a P-2 are reflected as p-2s on an SSD, but are not necessarily identical systems (the Andromedans were my example).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 04:22 pm: Edit

There are P-1s on some PFs.

Rolmulan, Gorn, ISC, Tholian. Fed conjectural PF as well. In THINK Kzinti too, but I'm not as sure about that.

It's the Hydrans/Klinks/Lyrans who are stuck with P-2s on their PFs.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 04:57 pm: Edit

Even the Kzinti Interceptors get a P1.

There was a suggestion a while ago that the P2 races didn't have P1s because the materials needed for the fire control were rare in that part of space. Given the amount of Kzinti and Fed space they conquered, this might not have been a permanent problem.

Clearly, the PFs wouldn't have been on the top of the upgrade list - a DW would be a much more deserving candidate - EXCEPT for some absolutely vital missions like Operation Unity.

As such, I can well imagine the Lyrans making a very limited P1 upgrade in about Y200. Heck, they might even have slapped a UIM on there too. The same could apply to the Klingons and Hydrans, except that they don't rely so much on PFs.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 05:18 pm: Edit

Need Frax, Qari and Triaxian interceptors. Possibly other C4 races too, but these have PFs and are more or less campaign-capable.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:32 am: Edit

Juggernaught PFs.

Just because.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Bobcat-I (Bobcat "improved"). Because the Lyrans deserve it.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar1) on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Marc, improved how....hard to add anything (maybe an extra ph-2 [FA] under the bridge?)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 12:08 am: Edit

K-Refit would be significant. Range-15 disruptors. A warp design that eliminates pack damage. Better shields. I'm not advocating any of these, but there are things you could do without changing the basic design.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 12:20 pm: Edit

Heck, give the Lyrans range 12 disruptors. IIRC they are Range 10 now, so they have real issues avoiding range 8.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Andromedan PFs, because is was the Juggernaught and its PFs that chased them from their galaxy!!

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 02:22 pm: Edit

My bobcat improvement is something like +1 Ph-2 and three 2-box engines (csll it a trimaran Lynx). That's still strictly worse than an Arachnid but not by as much.

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Shawn, the Juggernaut is a PF. What's needed is a Juggernaut tender.

With X-tech.

By Roger Rardain (Sky_Captain) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Could be worse. The Juggy could be a single-space fighter.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 09:26 pm: Edit

I thought it was a single space drone!
regards
Stacy

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 12:22 am: Edit

Bobcat-I could be as simple as a "p" refit - upgrade the 2xp3 to 2xp2s (total 4xp2s).

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:18 am: Edit

Ridiculous.

Everyone knows that the Juggernaught is considered an ADD round in its home galaxy.

By Shawn Hantke (Shantke) on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:45 am: Edit

That would be awesome, a Juggernaught tender SSD on an 11" by 17" page

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 11:47 am: Edit

Huh, I always thought the Juggernaut was a probe.