Andorian Missile Cruiser
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development: Module Y4 (the new one): Andorian Missile Cruiser
By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:20 pm: Edit

The idea for this proposal stems from the general aggressive nature of the Andorians. Of all the Federation member races in the 'Early Years', they would be one of the most likely to build ships for dedicated attack purposes, and so this exists as a fleet support ship that would be commonly involved in base (or fixed installation) assaults.

Note that it's pretty unlikely this ship would ever appear on its own. Although NOT a 'drone bombardment' ship, this ship would still be under the (S8.47) deployment restrictions.

Also note that, while based (loosely) on a Heavy Cruiser hull, the more streamlined variant/refit process that would become the norm during the Middle Years and General War had not yet taken hold. As a result, an Andorian Heavy Cruiser would never be modified into this unit...it would involve almost completely rebuilding the ship. (A heavily damaged Andorian Heavy Cruiser could possibly be rebuilt as this variant rather than the base type...but it depends on where and what the damage is. Generally, these would be built as new construction only.)

Linkage to SSD

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Considering nobody except the Terrans (WCL/YCL/OCL) built new hulls for their W-ships (warp-REFIT, after all) I think you have a better chance of getting this published in Y4 by saying the Andorians converted 1-3 old sublight missile cruisers to warp power and replaced their old atomic missile racks with the 'new' Andorian drone launchers.

It would still suck, but just suck in a different way from the regular Andorian WCA....

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 03:44 pm: Edit

I would note that the "Andorian Missile Cruiser" name was used in FASA Trek, I do not know if this would cause copyright issues or not.

Useful looking ship.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 04:12 pm: Edit

How many reloads did ships in this era carry? One set? During heavy combat this ship would likely run out of drones, and be toothless. Needs cargo boxes to carry extra reloads IMO. Drone variants which replace heavy weapons all seem to have cargo IIRC.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Adm - this naming pays homage to that, sure, but you are misremembering slightly. That was the Federation Andor-class Missile Cruiser you are thinking of.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Mike - is that a definite, that nobody else built ANY other new W-hulls, especially as the Kzinti War got going? (In any case, I was thinking something like you are suggesting...these were 'new construction', built in parallel to the heavy cruisers...rather than conversions, BEFORE the warp refits. So when the refits started happening, these got upgraded, too.)

In any case, my thought was that this should be a rare ship, indeed - mostly only existing as reconstruction of heavily damaged cruisers.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Terry - while true, this isn't a General War-era drone bombardment cruiser. No heavy weapons were 'replaced' at all.

This is a long time before the stretching supply lines of interstellar war the galaxy would ultimately see. This ship would never have more than one strike mission before returning to base, and never be VERY far from Andorian space to begin with.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:56 pm: Edit

"Mike - is that a definite, that nobody else built ANY other new W-hulls, especially as the Kzinti War got going?"

Unless the Steves say otherwise, yes.

W-ships were, almost without exception (Hydrans), sublight ships refitted/converted to use warp power. It was cheaper to simply build 'new' Y-hulls than refit/build old W-hulls.

Only the Terrans (and the Romulans..aheh) kept building the base hulls into the later era's, the Fed CL and the Romulan Warbird/Hawk/Snipe/Vulture being the most famous examples.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Terry O'Carroll:

One.

And there is no point to noting that the ship would run out of drones, all Early Years Kzinti, and all Early Years Andorian ships are drone armed and have that problem (one reload) except for the Kzinti YDF and YCD, which are bombardment as opposed to direct-combat platforms.

This proposed ship is not a "bombardment" platform in that sense because the Andorians do not have type-III drones.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 05:59 pm: Edit

"How many reloads did ships in this era carry? One set? During heavy combat this ship would likely run out of drones, and be toothless. Needs cargo boxes to carry extra reloads IMO. Drone variants which replace heavy weapons all seem to have cargo IIRC."

I could see ONE cargo box on the ship.

And remember, Andorian drones can't be used for scatterpacks.....unlike Kzinti/normal drones.

Personally, I would think during the Kzinti War, the Andorians would have 'refitted' at least SOME of their ships (cruisers, mainly) with photons replacing the drone launcher (and have L and R firing arcs, for the Coolness....)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Mike Strain:

I am sorry, but no.

There is no justification for this proposed ship to have a cargo box to increase its drone storage that does not apply to a standard Andorian ship in this period, or to standard Kzinti W ships in this period.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Concur. No cargo. Just doesn't fit with their ship design patterns for this period.

(Somewhat ditto with the photon suggestion - what would be the point? Maintenance nightmare for the Andorian High Command, and to what end? If the fleet needs photon support, every other species in the entire Federation could contribute to that...)

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Hmmm.

Just went back and read the section on Andorian drones again, and I can't find anything that prohibits them from being used in a scatterpack.

Could have sworn you couldn't use Andorian drones in scatterpacks, but I guess you can.

As for the cargo box thing....well, yeah. I said I could see ONE cargo box for drone storage...none would be better.

As for the 'maintenance nightmare' of a hypothetical photon 'refit'.....as opposed to the logistical nightmare of keeping all your ships supplied with drones during a war. And I don't see how it would be a 'maintenance' nightmare, given that EVERY OTHER SHIP in the fleet (and bases) all have photons as well.

One could argue that during the Kzinti War the Andorians were the ones with both a maintenance AND a logistical nightmare, as they had to produce and ship not only drones, but spare parts for the drone launchers to repair combat damage....while everyone else simply drew parts for their photons from Star Fleet Central Supply....

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Quote:

One could argue that during the Kzinti War the Andorians were the ones with both a maintenance AND a logistical nightmare, as they had to produce and ship not only drones, but spare parts for the drone launchers to repair combat damage....while everyone else simply drew parts for their photons from Star Fleet Central Supply



Sure, but they did do it. Perhaps, given their history as the most militaristic of the Federation member species, they already had the infrastructure and supply support structures in place to support war using their particular technology choices.

In any case, while I don't disagree that there must have been some considerations in supply they had to deal with - we know that they DID do so. Andorian ships in battle with the fleet, and on their own, kept up with their supply well enough that they continued using drones as their primary weapon. Whatever the problem or challenge was around these, it was obviously solvable.

Photon torpedoes, on the other hand...there is no precedent for that. The Andorians don't have it in their supply system, and that would mean they would HAVE to rely on the rest of the fleet's supply lines. This, they may well have been reluctant to do, which may be why they stuck with the drones in the first place. Would the Andorians be willing to rely on Vulcan supply ships arriving with photon torpedo parts in time to keep up a hypothetical offensive? Or would they rather stick with drones, that they control the supply of, and thus keep a certain self-sufficiency?

From my reading of their history and background, I think the latter.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, December 31, 2012 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Alexander Fulton:

There is a major difference in supporting logistically your own fleet around your own home systems and supporting that fleet on a distant station when you are drawing on the logistics of "the empire" as a whole. So, no, the Andorians do not solve the problem. When they send ships off to help fight the Kzintis and the Romulans and the Klingons, and guard against pirates on distant stations they became an added logistics burden to the Federation as a whole. The only question was whether or not their ships were worth the added burden, and the answer to that in the current historical record is "no." If they had been, then drones would have been part of the Federation fleet in large numbers prior to the Y160s (when drone speed upgrades made them viable for use against the Romulans, leading to the development of the type-G drone rack).

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, December 31, 2012 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Quote:

There is a major difference in supporting logistically your own fleet around your own home systems and supporting that fleet on a distant station when you are drawing on the logistics of "the empire" as a whole.


While true, at the same time, we know the Andorian ships DID serve in the fleet with their drone racks.

So while they may not have been the first choice - clearly, at least in some situations (and under what details we don't know - perhaps the EY fleet was just stretched that thin that ANYTHING was better than nothing...I dunno), the decision to send Andorian ships - with drones - was the choice that was made from time to time.

In any case, I'm not sure that is really a criticism of this proposal. Only a couple posts into the thread, I was trying to make it clear this ship would really not have strayed far from Andorian space. The general point was that we do know the Andorian ships got refits to serve in the fleet, and they never got 'the photon refit' - they kept their unique drones throughout their service life. And given that, prior to the W-era refits, they would have been the ONLY ships the Andorians used or had access to - they would certainly have experimented with various combinations of lasers/early phasers and missiles in their sublight period.

Given that...and that the Andorians appear to have refused the photon refit and stuck to drones...would they have refit none of those missile-heavier designs to warp standard? It's my proposal that a few of those missile-heavier designs WOULD have gotten the warp refit, which is where this ship comes from.

Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only
Administer Page | Delete Conversation | Close Conversation | Move Conversation