Archive through September 30, 2011
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module R14: Ships not published earlier :
Redesigning the Classic Monitor:
Archive through September 30, 2011
Robert Cole proposed to redesign the ubiquitous monitor, giving every empire its own unique design. Unfortunately, his designs were all over the map, with some being twice as fast as others, some twice as big as other, and some have nearly twice the firepower of others. To be acceptable the designs would have to be as nearly equivalent to each other as the various generic monitors are to each other. If Steve Petrick decides to proceed wirh the idea (which did not seem to be a priority for players) he would have to create his own nearly equivalent designs. While you could argue that this smacks of cookie-cutterism, if you're replacing a series of equivalent ships, you cannot play favorites and give some empires a good one and others a useless one.
AN EXORCISE IN DESIGN
Revisiting the Classic Monitor
One of the strengths of Star Fleet Battles is the diversity of ship designs between races. Even when comparing two ships of the same class, the differences between Race A and Race B drastically changes the way the two ships fly. Consider the difference in flying a Klingon D5 and a Federation NCL. Both ships have similar power curves, similar armament, even similar weapons – but fly completely different due to things like weapon arcs, power requirements, and maneuverability.
In the years since it was originally created, Star Fleet Battles has taken that diversity and expanded to literally thousands of ships. Everything from the lowly Fast Patrol Ship to the massive Battleship has been defined and “fleshed out” based on the various races’ design philosophies and hull-styles. There are exceptions, though. Freighters are represented within SFB as a generic unit, merely changing its weapon to match the “owning Empire”. Even such large units as Bases are generically represented within the game. Some of these “generic” units make sense – freighters have a very small power curse and weapon load-out. Bases are required to have satisfactory defenses in a 360o arc, thus limiting some of the more interesting ship design elements.
There is one unit that is handled by a generic design that, in my opinion, should not be: the Monitor. The Monitor shares some similarity with freighters (low maneuverability) and bases (very specific mission profile, primarily defensive in nature), but also has all the design elements that makes ship design interesting (considerable weapon load-out, large power generation).
However, the Monitor was not only designed many, many years ago, it has also already been revisited and reprinted in race-specific SSDs (Module R1). This means that any attempt to redesign the ship to closer match the historical design philosophies of the various Empires is effectively “dead on arrival”. ADB has no need to reprint 12+ ships that are already adequately covered within the existing game universe.
Players, though, are not restricted by such things as “profit margins”.
So it is with this introduction that I present to you my personal vision of a redesigned Monitor for 13 of the original races in SFB. I have endeavored to keep each monitor similar to the generic unit in regards to weapon load-out and powergeneration, but I have also worked to ensure that these “new” Monitors also closely align with the overall designs each Empire presents. For example: the “new” Klingon Monitor has a distinct Boom and Secondary hull.
Changes to the hull-outline necessitate changes to the rest of the ship, which is when the design process becomes “interesting”. Weapon arcs had to adjust (which is good) to account for their new location on the ships. Power generation might need to be adjusted (some Empires simply don’t use Center Warp). Even such things as the number of Control Stations (IE – Bridge), Transporters, Tractor Beams, etc. had to be revisited and either changed, or comfortably added to the new outline.
Below I will present the new designs along with a comparison to the Generic Monitor, and an explanation for the changes. I hope you enjoy these designs, and I welcome any criticism or input regarding the designs.
THE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS
The Federation gets the short end of the stick in this project. I didn’t see any reason to completely dispose of the original Monitor design, so someone had to use it. After looking at the design’s layout and capabilities I really felt that it would work well as the Federation’s Monitor. I am not opposed to creating a “Saucer and Secondary Hull” Monitor, but I haven’t done so as of yet.
THE KLINGON EMPIRE (J6 SSD)
This entire project began with the Klingons. Few of the other races have such a distinctive overall design feature as the Boom and Secondary Hull (the Federation Saucer / Secondary is similar). Thus, I had a starting point of designing a Boom / Secondary layout Monitor.
For the Boom section, I wanted to have a link to existing Klingon ships, preferably one of the smaller police type ships. The E3 Boom was what I ultimately settled on because of the 4 forward Phaser positions. The secondary hull I effectively built it as I went along, and I’m happy with the large, bulky result as it implies a lack of speed.
Early on I made the decision to increase the Warp power from the Generic Monitor. The reason for this was two-fold. For one, Klingon ships rarely use a large APR bank. So if I was going to reduce the APR count, I would need to increase power somewhere else. For two, Klingon ships are more maneuverable than many ships of similar size. Despite the heavy secondary hull, the increase in Warp Power can be used to justify a better turn mode.
The weapon load-out of the new Monitor is considerably different than the Generic version. Gone completely are the Phaser-3s while the number of Phaser-2s was increased. While the new Monitor retains 6 Disruptors, the arcs were reduced considerably. These changes were made with an eye towards the time period the original Monitor was designed in.
When considering the overall box count, the J6 is 8 internals smaller than the original Monitor.
For the ship name I wanted to give the design a letter and number designation (IE – “D6”). After some consideration I decided on the letter “J”, the same letter used for the Penal ships. I have a feeling flying a large, slow, defensive-focused ship would be the next step up from flying a Penal Cruiser (maybe even a step down, at least the Penal ships are sent into combat, Monitors generally have to wait). The numeric “6” was chosen for no real reason other than it is similar to the D6.
For an overall balance perspective, I feel the J6 closely matches the original Monitor. The reduction in the Disruptor arcs is countered by the increased speed, maneuverability, and expanded Phaser arcs.
THE ROMULAN STAR EMPIRE
BUZZARD “OLD” MONITOR, (SSD)
From the beginning I wanted to create an Eagle-style Monitor. The primary emphasis of Eagle-type Romulan ships is on heavier, but fewer, plasma launchers. However, the Generic Monitor has a plasma armament nearly identical to the Condor Dreadnought (a Hawk-style design). For this design exercise I wanted to design a Monitor that more closely resembled the Vulture Dreadnought (an Eagle-style) in armament and capabilities.
First, I adjusted the weapon layout:
Instead of a single R- and two S-Torpedoes, the new Monitor would sport two R-Torpedoes.
Instead of 360o Phaser-1s, the new Monitor would follow the pattern laid out by all the old Eagle-era ships and use FA+L and FA+R phasers.
The Phaser-3s were reduced by two (from four) and added via a refit – exactly as the old era ships did.
Second, I considered the internal systems:
Armor was added, in line with Eagle-style.
APR was completely removed as Eagle-style rarely use APR (only the King Eagle and Vulture variants have APR).
To adjust for the reduced power generation, the Impulse engine size was increased.
Tractor Beams and Transporters were reduced, reflecting their “ad hoc” addition to older Romulan designs.
Forward and Rear Hull were combined into a single Center Hull.
Third, I placed the systems into an outline that matched the Eagle-style designs.
Like the Klingon J6, the Romulan design has a reduction in overall box count (7 fewer than the generic design). Balance between the generic and the “Eagle-Monitor” is open to playtesting and debate.
KJR KESTREL MONITOR, (SSD)
My Klingon J6 design was finished long before I finished the new Romulan Monitors, so it was only logical to convert the J6 into Romulan technology. The conversion was fairly straight forward, following the pattern established in the D6 to KR conversion. The only exception was in the heavy weapons. In cases where a Klingon ship had 6 disruptors, the KR conversion used 1xR-, 2xS-, and 2xF-Torpedo launchers. However, the J6 outline does not easily support a centralized R-type torpedo, so I chose to go with 2xS- and 4xF-Torpedoes. I could have chose to go with 4xS- and 2xF-Torpedoes, but decided I would explore that open with the following design.
BUZZHAWK "NEW" MONITOR, (SSD)
When I designed this ship I wanted it to stay as close to the Generic design as possible. I also wanted the Romulan “new” hull design to be clearly evident to represent its position in the Romulan design history. With those goals in mind, I opted to utilize the existing Skyhawk rear-hull as the starting point. This allowed me to have certain systems already in place – specifically the 2 Transporters, 4 Tractor Beams, LS / RS Phaser-3s, and logical position for the LS / RS Pl-D racks. The rest of the systems had to be added to the forward “boom” section.
The use of the two long APR decks makes for an interesting ship-silhouette (externally), and allows me to add large plasma armament in the boom (the additional structure for the reactors also added bracing needed for the heavy weapons).
I intentionally chose to go with the 3xPlasma-S armament, instead of the Generic’s 1xR- and 2xS-, to further differentiate this ship from the Buzzard and KJR Monitor designs. This has the added benefit of the three Romulan Monitors having a unique weapon layout, with one focusing on heavy plasma (the Buzzard), one mixing medium and light plasma (KJR), and one mainly carrying medium strength plasma (the Buzzhawk).
THE KZINTI HEGEMONY (SSD)
This was the first redesign that posed many problems. Kzinti ships follow a straight forward design standard, but it is somewhat difficult to make a design that looks decent. After attempting to make a design out of the Early Years cruisers as a starting point, I ultimately decided the ship would be better served to follow the layout of the “modern” ships. While it isn’t obvious now, this ship is based on the Kzinti Destroyer outline.
Overall, this ship is very similar to the Generic Monitor when looking at overall box count and weapon loadout. However, the differences in weapon arcs are considerable. I also opted to make the ship even more interesting by adding refit details similar to the C-12 and C-14 refits applied to other Kzinti ships.
THE GORN CONFEDERATION (SSD)
The Gorn have the “bubble” design pattern that was completely ignored in the Generic Monitor. So that, like the Klingon’s and their Boom, is where I started for the new design. I decided to go with the forward and rear bubble to avoid any future “Super Monitor” designs (though I don’t doubt players will still design a “big bubble” ala the Dreadnought Cruiser).
As with many of the new Monitor designs, the Gorn design split the single 6-box Center Warp into a Left and Right engine to closer match their standard ship designs (this is amusing for the Gorn, as they actually do use two Center Warp engines). The switch to “bubbles” drastically changes the phaser arcs, though the Heavy and Secondary weapons were unchanged from the Generic design.
As a personal note, this hull outline is my least favorite of the new designs.
THE THOLIAN HOLDFAST (SSD)
This was easily the most dramatic redesign I did for this set. The problem I faced was the established Tholian background: the Tholians arrived with a limited number of Neo-Tholian DDs and FFs, a larger number of Police Corvettes (with the ability to create more), and that’s about it. Now I COULD design a Neo-Tholian Monitor (and would like to), but the point of this was to design a ship that might actually fit within the established history.
At its core a Monitor is a stripped down, slow, Dreadnought. The ship sacrifices secondary systems (such as Lab and Hull) to gain a stronger weapon loadout. The Tholians built their Dreadnought by combining three Patrol Corvettes because they simply couldn’t build a larger hull. It didn’t take a big jump in logic to assume they might have done something similar to the even smaller Police Cutter.
I have no doubt that other players have created similar “multi-Cutter” ships, mirroring the CW, CA, and D. However, when designing the ship with an eye towards the Monitor roll, the ship is obviously considerably different. In fact, it is so different it may not truly qualify as a Monitor.
The biggest difference is in the area of power; specifically Warp Power. The generic Monitor sports 6 Center Warp, but my Archaeo-Monitor sports 12 warp boxes. I considered increasing the movement cost of the unit to counter act the increase Warp output, but ultimately decided that if anyone would have (and perhaps NEED) a ridiculously fast Monitor, it would be the Tholians. I did reduce the other power sources on the ship, though.
Additional changes to weapon arcs were modelled after the D-series ship.
THE HYDRAN MONARCHY, (SSD)
First note - credit for the name of this unit goes to Chris Fant.
From an overall design concept, the Hydrans have a few hull outlines to draw from. Unlike most of the other races, the Hydrans have managed to support a multitude of hull outlines that don't really look alike. Compare the silhouette of the Hydran Frigate to their Destroyer, their Destroyer to their Cruiser, and so forth. This gave me a little more freedom in designing their new monitor. After trying a few variations, I ultimately settled on a modified design based off their Early Years cruiser.
Compared to the generic design, the Hydran design shows very few changes. The Fusion Beams have slightly smaller firing arcs, but the Phaser arcs are increased to compensate.
THE LYRAN EMPIRE (SSD)
The Lyran Monitor was the second one I completed. This is partially due to the similarity between this ship and the Klingon design (which I designed first), but also simply because Lyran ships have a simple and elegant hull design to start with. My initial design was intentionally designed to be limited in auxiliary power generation to match the early Lyran ships. I've also designed a "+" variant that addresses this problem (though not with anything so elegant as a Power Pack, link here).
The Lyran design is slightly more maneuverable than the generic model. Disruptor and Phaser arcs have also been reduced to match standard middle year designs. To account for the poor phaser coverage, I did add two new 360 phasers.
THE INTERSTELLAR CONSORTIUM (SSD)
The final design is for the great Peacekeepers, the ISC. Despite not ever being part of the echelon, I thought it might be interesting to retain the rear-firing PL-F. However, other than that change this ship is remarkably similar to the generic model. The hull has been combined into a single center block, and phasers have been shifted slightly. An interesting side effect of the hull outline is a considerable reduction in control spaces, though that could be corrected with little difficulty.
This concludes my presentation of the Redesign of the Generic Monitor. I welcome critique and comments from those who might be so inclined.
If you were to redesign the Fed Monitor, I would go towards the look of the Old Light Cruiser for inspiration, rather than a saucer & secondary design.
Interesting idea, only looked at the Lyran tonight. Due to how early Monitors were developed, perhaps it should be a Catamaran hull?
Oh, gods, I SO WISH this project could get enough traction to move forward.
I would *gladly* pay for a new Module R1-like product that gives us actually race-specific monitors (...and bases ...and freighters ...and auxiliaries).
The maximum speed of these units seem to vary wildly. I could see perhaps a two point variance for flavor, but you've gone far beyond that. Speed 13 to 21 is too wide a variance imo.
If you have access to a copy of Module C5, an interesting point of comparison might be found there in how the Eneen created their own empire-specific monitor by heavily adapting their light cruiser design.
(In their case, the CL was originally the YCL; the Eneen were unable to bring the warp engines on the ship up to modern standards. So, when they later built the faster NCL, they turned the surviving CLs into Monitors, in which case the reduction in battle speed was less of an issue.)
I love this concept, but will have to look at the SSDs a bit more closely. How did you make them?
Very nice.
I will point out, however, that the Romulans don't need 'monitors'...they have sublight Vultures and Warbirds galore....
In fact, I like this idea alot. I would buy a R-whatever: The Monitors module, just for the SSD's (and the fluff text).
However, if such a module was ever made, I would campaign to have the Romulans be the race without a monitor. As I somewhat jokingly typed earlier, they had plenty of sublight ships (like Warbirds and Hawks) that were, basically, de facto monitors in all but name. And I don't see the Romulans ever wasting limited resources on something like a monitor, anyway.
I like the idea of the Klink 'monitor' being akin to a penal unit. However, I see the Klingon monitor being part of the ISF, and used to..aheh..'monitor' politically unreliable worlds until a proper base (or other facility) can be built.
Futhermore:
I can see the Tholian 'monitor' actually being their first attempt to build a heavy capital unit, ie, it's a failed D design. Adds some flavor to the Tholians.
As for the Lyran, I, personally, would base it off their old WDN, and say it was an attempt to save money by recycling old hulls. Since monitors aren't expected to see much combat anyway (they are more of a deterrant factor), corners were cut to save money, etc.
This is a nice idea. I like it a lot.
Wow, that's a lot of work Zathras, many thanks. At first glance all the monitors look very good. I look forward to using them.
@Xander I agree, I would be very interested too in an R1 type module but I don't know if the economics would be viable.
Very nice, of course an Orion Monitor would be out of the question, but a WYN monitor composed of parts from several old captured crippled ships from various empires would be cool.
Awesome!
Very nice! Three general comments:
1. I agree about the lack of a need for Monitors for the Romulans (though that would make an interesting change in FnE to pull the generic monitor).
2. For the Tholains, I don't see them making a special monitor when a Pinwheel could do the job with existing ships assigned semi-permanently to a planet.
3. If this goes to press, I would request that it be a "dual format module" such that the monitors could be used by Federation Commander. I don't think there would be interest for duplicate products, but the "dual SSD" concept from CL would allow the module to be used in both game systems.
Quote:Donovan A Willett: If you were to redesign the Fed Monitor, I would go towards the look of the Old Light Cruiser for inspiration, rather than a saucer & secondary design.
This is actually why I like the generic Monitor for the Federation. It just feels right when compared tot he POL and Old CL.
Quote:David Merritt: Interesting idea, only looked at the Lyran tonight. Due to how early Monitors were developed, perhaps it should be a Catamaran hull?
I did consider using something like the Early Years Lyran outline, but the Monitor YIS is closer to the Middle Years.
Quote:Xander Fulton: Oh, gods, I SO WISH this project could get enough traction to move forward. I would *gladly* pay for a new Module R1-like product that gives us actually race-specific monitors (...and bases ...and freighters ...and auxiliaries).
I have sent a few emails to ADB, but never really got a response. I'm not really surprised, though, as I mentioned in the introduction. As for the other generic units, I tend to think freighters, auxiliaries, and bases work fine as generic designs. Bases might be an interesting design excersize, but with freighters there just aren't enoguh systems to make them interesting (in my opinion).
Quote:Richard B. Eitzen: The maximum speed of these units seem to vary wildly. I could see perhaps a two point variance for flavor, but you've gone far beyond that. Speed 13 to 21 is too wide a variance imo.
This is 100% understandable, and I can see where you come from. However, I feel that Monitors don't have to be balanced against each other, so felt I could take some liberty. It does make writing a generic "fight a monitor" scenario harder to balance, though.
Quote:Gary Carney: If you have access to a copy of Module C5, an interesting point of comparison might be found there in how the Eneen created their own empire-specific monitor by heavily adapting their light cruiser design.
(In their case, the CL was originally the YCL; the Eneen were unable to bring the warp engines on the ship up to modern standards. So, when they later built the faster NCL, they turned the surviving CLs into Monitors, in which case the reduction in battle speed was less of an issue.)
This project originally started in my head when I designed a monitor for a race I was designing. In their case they started a battleship, found out they couldn't make engines large enough, so decided to turn it into a capital defense Monitor. I haven't looked closely at the Eneen in a few years, but I might take a look this weekend.
Quote:Randy Blair: I love this concept, but will have to look at the SSDs a bit more closely. How did you make them?
8-10 years ago I was pretty big into designing new ships for SFB. During that time I created a set of tools that would allow me to make new designs quickly, but still look "official". Its crude - I use MS Paint - but it works for me.
Quote:Mike Strain: Very nice.
I will point out, however, that the Romulans don't need 'monitors'...they have sublight Vultures and Warbirds galore....
In fact, I like this idea alot. I would buy a R-whatever: The Monitors module, just for the SSD's (and the fluff text).
However, if such a module was ever made, I would campaign to have the Romulans be the race without a monitor. As I somewhat jokingly typed earlier, they had plenty of sublight ships (like Warbirds and Hawks) that were, basically, de facto monitors in all but name. And I don't see the Romulans ever wasting limited resources on something like a monitor, anyway.
I like the idea of the Klink 'monitor' being akin to a penal unit. However, I see the Klingon monitor being part of the ISF, and used to..aheh..'monitor' politically unreliable worlds until a proper base (or other facility) can be built.
Futhermore:
I can see the Tholian 'monitor' actually being their first attempt to build a heavy capital unit, ie, it's a failed D design. Adds some flavor to the Tholians.
As for the Lyran, I, personally, would base it off their old WDN, and say it was an attempt to save money by recycling old hulls. Since monitors aren't expected to see much combat anyway (they are more of a deterrant factor), corners were cut to save money, etc.
You know, I spent a ton of time trying to figure out an old-style Romulan hull that I liked. I even considered making it a variant of the Vulture DN. I never considered just not giving them such a ship. Your logic makes sense, though. *shrug*
As for the Lyran - see a comment above about using an Early Years hull. My favorite Lyran design is their Early DN, but I really wanted to visit the monitor design from the "dual hull" perspective and the YIS gave me the excuse I needed.
Quote:Ted Fay: This is a nice idea. I like it a lot.
Simon J Waldock: Wow, that's a lot of work Zathras, many thanks.
Troy Williams: Awesome!
Thanks, guys.
Quote:Reid Hupach: Very nice, of course an Orion Monitor would be out of the question, but a WYN monitor composed of parts from several old captured crippled ships from various empires would be cool.
Aren't ALL WYN ships basically monitors?
Quote:Michael Tisdel:
Very nice! Three general comments:
1. I agree about the lack of a need for Monitors for the Romulans (though that would make an interesting change in FnE to pull the generic monitor).
2. For the Tholains, I don't see them making a special monitor when a Pinwheel could do the job with existing ships assigned semi-permanently to a planet.
3. If this goes to press, I would request that it be a "dual format module" such that the monitors could be used by Federation Commander. I don't think there would be interest for duplicate products, but the "dual SSD" concept from CL would allow the module to be used in both game systems.
I never considered a Pinwheel. That's actually a really good idea.
As for Federation Commander - I (obviously) wouldn't be opposed to such a thing, but I do not own FC so really don't have any way to do that on my own.