The other ship like that is the Fed DDX. However, both designs predated first generation X-ships (even if not actually built).

By Lee Sims (Ssims2) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 02:21 pm: Edit

>Well that would be an entirely new design, which is something that didn't (currently) appear during the 1x period. X2 perhaps?

The background states that there were no all new X-tech designs before 205, not that there were no new designs at all. Twenty years is a long time - surely someone would have at least conceived of something new.

There is a general death of new designs or even variants from 190+. The nature of the Andromedan threat (radically different technological challenges, strong pressure at the periphery of each empire while the core remains relatively untouched) means that there is a strong motive and plenty of opportunity for new designs or variants. Of course, this subject might be better for Module 3B (the anti-Andromedan Threat File, perhaps). Many or perhaps most of these new designs might very well be unsuccessful in fighting the Andros, given how poorly Andro tech is understood (and thus preserving play balance, as well).

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:21 pm: Edit

For me, one thing I really want to see more of in the post-Unity era is the surviving Alpha Octant empires begin to expand their scope beyond their home neck of the woods.

The background article for Federation survey cruisers a few CL issues back mentioned that a number of them were being sent on long-term missions into the Lesser Magellanic Cloud, as part of ongoing efforts to help clear out the Andromedan holdouts still present, and to support the fragile Magellanic partisans as they struggle to re-conquer their home systems. (Scott Tenhoff's scenario in CL43 shows that more than just sruvey ships were being deployed to the LMC in this era; though the same event indicates how less-than-smoothly things can sometimes go for all involved...)

Plus, in the wake of the USS Sakharov's historic flight to the Omega Octant (and Iridani Cluster) and back again, it would stand to reason that at least some Alpha empires might be interested in following suit. (I'd imagine there to have been more than a few heads turned in the Federation, Klingon Empire and ISC when news of the Federal Republic of Aurora went public upon the Sakharov's return; plus some nerves jittered at the stark evidence showing just how wide-ranging the Andromedan menace had been.)

Indeed, what of other Iridani-like globular clusters or dwarf galaxies orbiting the Milky Way? There are hints at the Greater Magellanic Cloud being explored at some point, plus the Tholian Holdfast would have their cousins in the Draco Dwarf Galaxy to turn to.

That's not to say that all of these clusters have to have indigenous species of their own (or species that might have been present, but which did not survive occupation for that matter); far from it. Still, there could be scope for this or that globular cluster or dwarf galaxy to have a notable (if not major) Andromedan presence, that task forces of X-ships (albeit not nearly approaching the scale of Unity) could be sent to flush out.


In general, I would hope that the post-Unity era would herald the beginning of what would amount to a new Age of Discovery for the Alpha Octant; and the opportunity to develop new classes of ships designed from the keel up to handle these new long-range explorations more readily.

Besides, as the Andro snapshot in CL35 points out, no-one knows just how many other satellite galaxies, or segments of the Milky Way, may also have been invested by the Andromedans. The "New Menace" that may need to be flushed out could well end up looking all too much like the old one...

...although, if the Gorns are looking for trouble, they'd be more than welcome to send some long-range missions to help deal with the Paravian jihad!

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 04:33 pm: Edit

"Deal with" the Jihad? We'd be happy to give them back the Trusteeship Zone if they're willing to live in peace, but that doesnt' seem likely. And probably wouldn't help their victims over there at any rate.
Unfortunately we can't authorize the expense of sending ships to the Omega octant at this time.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 05:16 pm: Edit

I might point out that it may not just be certain Alpha powers that could be going on long-range missions; Sakharov was escorted back to the Federation by the Iridani, though in their case they have a tradition of long-range exploration.

If they won't go to Omega, the Gorns may well find the Paravians coming to them.

And it won't be to make friends.

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Gary: Much more likely, imho. And it's a perfect excuse for the Gorn to call on the ISC to get some help pacifying the insane birds.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Maybe whats needed to deal with what ever Joe Carlsons "new manace" (whatever that turns out to be...) is a combination between Michael Graftons new system defense thingy and the existing size class 4 X ships.

We have the existing Monitors (cruiser sized, fire power equal to a Dreadnought), we have the antient (well, very old design) light monitors (IIRC it was the size of a destroyer and the firepower of a heavy cruiser)... maybe what we need is a "Micro Monitor" say the size of a Frigate and the fire power of a light cruiser.

I mean, if the idea is planetary defense for threatened colonies, its hard to beat the cost effectiveness of a monitor... and if these micro monitors have all of the bells and whistles of General War technology and refits, they may not need X tech or XP refits.

Just a thought.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Another thought...

What about a X1B variant of the Kzinti CCX to a Kzinti Light Carrier (9 or 10 late GW fighters, not X fighters)?

Kzintis historically do operate fighters, and continue to do so for years after the GW... why not give the Kzinti's a light X carrier for racial flavor?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 07:14 pm: Edit

I meant to get back to this topic earlier, but have been distracted. I'm a bit more conservative than some of the posters here on what X-ships are still "needed". I posted a list of 4 such ships I thought were really needed in my 1:57 pm post on 3 November.

One of those ships was a scout based on the Tholian CWX. I want to post a few more Tholian ships that I would like to see published. These are not needed as much as the CWSX (or whatever the abbreviation for a CWX-based scout would be). But all of them seem like something the Tholians both could and would actually build. As a Tholian player I would much rather see these than an NDDX, NFFX (both would be conjectural only since no usable rear hulls survived), CANX (the Tholians could probably build this but I don't think they would - I think it's an inefficient use of XTPs) or DPWX (SC2 - impossible to actually build).

CSVX (X-tech version of their Scout Carrier)
This would basically be the CWSX with external hangers added for a squadron of 6 Spider-Vs. Most empires received ships of this type already and the Spider-V fast heavy fighter is the only Tholian fighter that I think Tholian X-ships would be likely to carry, other than the pair of Spider-IIIs for their HDWX. The Tholian single-space fighters are all too weak to justify commiting an X-tech hull.

This ship could be used as an RTN hunter, though the PWX (the CWX-based PFT - I don't recall the three-letter abbreviation for certain) would be better. But this ship is better than the PWX as an electronic warfare platform supporting an X-tech squadron, since the PWX only has two special sensors. Compared to the CWSX, the CSVX (or whatever it's called) has the same EW support capabilities but brings more firepower due to its heavy fighter squadron. It also costs more but the Spider-V is good enough that I believe the Tholians would at least consider building such a ship.

PWX (a photon torpedo version of the CWX - suggested abbreviation based on the CAX/PAX naming convention)
The Tholians already have a photon torpedo version of their CW, and this would be an X-tech conversion of that. The ship is not needed to the extent the CWSX is because the Tholians already have photon-armed X-cruisers (PAX and CPX) that are more powerful than the PWX would be. But they are also more expensive and harder to build. I believe the PWX is plausible as an economy of force ship.

WDX (Advanced Technology Web Defense Destroyer)
The inspiration for this ship is the CPA; the Tholian CA with all disruptors replaced by phaser-1s. The CPA was built specifically for defending webbed positions. I doubt the Tholians would build a rare X-cruiser hull (even a CWX) devoted entirely to the static defense mission. They need those ships to ensure the integrity of Tholian space, which could mean fighting an enemy fleet in open space, away from any bases. But they might be able to spare a DDX for the web defense mission. The WDX would simply replace the disruptors with phaser-1s, as per the CA/CPA conversion. Compared to the CPA it has less power, but has lower movement and housekeeping costs, as well as more reserve power. It has fewer phasers than the CPA and is more fragile internally, but has the inherent X-ship EW advantages. I think this is a plausible ship for supplementing the PCXs at highly vulnerable bases.

I'm sure others will disagree, but speaking as a primarily Tholian player, If I could choose 4 - and only 4 - new Tholian X-ships for X-1B, these are what I would choose.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 02:11 pm: Edit

The fabled and storied E5X would be nice.

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 06:09 pm: Edit

How big is this product supposed to be? Adding a "new menace" or new ships classes is likely to dramatically boost its size and a new menace woudl be something that would have to threaten most of the alpha quadrant which means it has to be balanced between all races.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 06:41 pm: Edit

It's supposed to be as big as a bikini, large enough to legally cover the subject matter and small enough to maintain interest.

As far as new classes and new threats, I'd say for you guys to run rampant. It's easy for me to say "No" later, but much harder for me to pull something new, exciting, and original out of my ear.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Well, lets just start the ball rolling, shall we?

Lets assume that "A New Menace" will be a part of the X1B module.

Further, that it be a "General" threat to all or most of all the Alpha Octant (thus explaining why it was to be included in the new rules module).

Third, (just for giggles and grins) such a new menance would, by necessity, need to be more than could be conveniently handled by the existing static defenses such as PDUs, non BATS bases or conventional merchant vessels.

Such a menace could be something like the raider Zorks that SVC has teased us with, or it could be something else. It could even be a "short duration" threat, say like a wave of sun snakes radiating from the center of the galaxy, laying waste to multiple star systems.

It could even be similar to the Star Fleet Command Computer Game (first edition) thing with the planet eaters Doomsday things.

Something that a PDU (minor planet) with a couple Defense Battalions, with either 2 Fighter Squadrons, or 2 Bombers Squadrons, or 2 Interceptor Squadrons or 2 flotillas of PFs or some combination not to exceed a total of 2 units (plus or minus a couple of skiffs give or take) might not be able to handle independently.

It might even be something that the X1B variants in the module might be better able to handle than any static defenses could... now what could it be?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:34 pm: Edit

X-"doomsday monsters".

Planetcrusher, death probes, ingeious, etc.

A coreward race which just wants to destroy all life in the galaxy, and leave it empty for themselves.

Could they have made the Amobea, Ice Monster, and Energy Monsters?

heheheheheh

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Scon, Nicozians, the Burnishers the Mynieni warn everyone of.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:53 pm: Edit

Black Lectroids from Planet Ten?

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 12:02 am: Edit

Leave the Burnishers as a PD mystery for GMs to hang adventures from IMO.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 12:34 am: Edit

Seltorian Second Wave

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 05:42 am: Edit

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Quote:

It's supposed to be as big as a bikini, large enough to legally cover the subject matter and small enough to maintain interest.

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By Patrick H. Dillman (Patrick) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 10:02 am: Edit

Xombie Apocalypse!!

Able to use vehicles and starships, but at the worst possible rateings.

By Mike Dowd (Duellist_69) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 11:24 am: Edit

Patrick, Those are the Sigvirions!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 11:26 am: Edit

How about a monster that engulfs bases and can move (using its own systems) and use the weapons and shields?
The monster comes in various sizes... the size of the base it infests.

What is worse is that you have to kill it inside the base, you can blow it up. And when your BPs die, they end up as its food, giving it healing/growth points. Not only that but you have to collects science points too, with both scans and boarding actions.

Hows that for an X-era monster? Play a quick scenario with an infected MB or BS or play a really scarry one vs. an infested Starbase.

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 11:30 am: Edit

Loren, you think too small. SBX or Stellar Fortress.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 01:52 pm: Edit

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Quote:

How about a monster that engulfs bases and can move (using its own systems) and use the weapons and shields?
The monster comes in various sizes... the size of the base it infests.

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By Dixon Simpkins (Dixsimpkins) on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 08:47 pm: Edit

"Seltorian Second Wave" has possibilities.

It would be a place to put the Heavy Hive Ship (Swarm Ship?) that was proposed in the Proposals section. Or perhaps, many, many such ships!(This is a genocide, after all.)

If an escaping Selt ship from the first hive ship met up with the second wave, it could give the new arrivals all of the technical data that the Klinks helped them with. This could lead to the second wave having First Gen X-ships, triple boom Dreadnoughts, NCA-style battlecruiser-dreadnoughts, and Space Control Ships.

And of course, the Second Wave would be royally pissed at, not just the Tholians, but also at the Tholian "Allies": the Feds, Gorns, and Kzinti,and also the ISC, and the Klingons (and their allies).
There is plenty of hate to go around.

It would take a long time for the first hive ship to communicate with the Home Galaxy, though. However, if one assumed that the first Hive Ship "caught the scent" of the Tholian exiles shortly after they departed from the Home Galaxy then it is not outside the realm of reason that The Second Wave could arrive as early as Y195-Y200.