Module E4 After Action Report.
Module E4 After Action

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 04:30 pm: Edit

I have asked Joel to post the current after action report for Module E4. You should note that a lot of the line items are requests for expansion of the Carrier tables and for Peladine variants using plasma-D racks and are not technically "errors" in need of correction.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Jean:

Would you please reset this topic down o the message where the After action report is posted by Joel Alexander.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Done!

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Sunday, February 19, 2012 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Peladine PF need the K5.2 weapon specification chart for PF damage. (Nick Samaras Feb 19, 2012)

Annex 7T lists "no changes or additions" but looking at the Peladine SSDs it looks like they lose plasma torpedoes if the engines are dropped. Needs to be addressed. (Nick Samaras Feb 19, 2012)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, February 20, 2012 - 03:21 pm: Edit

(K5.2) Peladine PF need the K5.2 weapon specification chart for PF damage. (Nick Samaras Feb 19, 2012) REPLY: As to "Peladine PF" I could not help but feel it was obvious from previous PFs. Weapon-A is the plasma-Fs, weapon-B is void, and weapon-C is phaser-2s.

Annex #7T lists "no changes or additions" but looking at the Peladine SSDs it looks like they lose plasma torpedoes if the engines are dropped. Needs to be addressed. (Nick Samaras Feb 19, 2012) REPLY: Annex #7T is not intended as a list of all possible ships and what happens to their weapons when the warp engines are dropped. It is examples, and thus the obvious example that if a Klingon D7, D6, or D5 drops its warp engines the disruptors go away makes it plain that the if you drop the warp engines on a Peladine ship any weapons associated with the warp engine go away.

By Steven E. Ehrbar (See) on Friday, July 05, 2013 - 08:17 pm: Edit

(R1.13A-JR1) Specifies A/B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.13B-JR1) Specifies A/B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.47-JR1) W3 is not specified. Should be specified as void. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.55-JR1) W1 is given as "three phaser-2s", but there are 7 W1 boxes on the SSD. Delete the word "three" to match (R1.74-JR1) which has the same 7 W1 boxes in the same positions. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.56-JR1) W1 is given as "three phaser-2s", but there are 7 W1 boxes on the SSD. Delete the word "three" to match (R1.74-JR1) which has the same 7 W1 boxes in the same positions. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.75-JR1) Specifies B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

(R1.76-JR1) Specifies B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, July 06, 2013 - 12:16 pm: Edit

(R1.13A-JR1) Specifies A/B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

REPLY: While this may seem odd to you, it was a conscious decision to make the ship different (providing different tactical applications), rather than simply a copy of the ships of other empires.

(R1.13B-JR1) Specifies A/B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

REPLY: While this may seem odd to you, it was a conscious decision to make the ship different (providing different tactical applications), rather than simply a copy of the ships of other empires.

(R1.75-JR1) Specifies B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

REPLY: While this may seem odd to you, it was a conscious decision to make the ship different (providing different tactical applications), rather than simply a copy of the ships of other empires.

(R1.76-JR1) Specifies B-racks as Weapon-B. But the Klingons and Kzintis both use ADDs, and the Federation uses G-racks. It seems odd that the Peladine alone of ADD-using empires would use standard drone racks instead of something that could fire ADDs here. Steven E. Ehrbar, 05 Jul 2013

REPLY: While this may seem odd to you, it was a conscious decision to make the ship different (providing different tactical applications), rather than simply a copy of the ships of other empires.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Thursday, November 28, 2013 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Hi SPP (and everyone else). Here is a summary of the first Peladine CA vs Federation CA Duel.

This battle will be included in my official playtest report, along with a couple of other battles.

The Federation CA performed a Battle Run against the Peladine CA. The Federation CA fired Proximity Photons and launched 1 Drone. Then the Federation CA turned off, knowing that the Peladine CA would be sure to launch seeking weapons in retaliation.

The Peladine CA easily destroyed the incoming Drone and then began chasing the Federation CA. The Federation CA tried desperately to gain distance against the Peladine CA. Surprisingly, the Peladine CA was faster, even with its plasmas being held.

In addition to Drones, the Peladine CA launched 2 Sabot Plasma-F Torpedoes. The Speed 40 Torpedoes quickly caught up to the Federation CA. The Federation CA had to quickly decide if it would Emergency Decelerate and launch a Wild Weasel or if it would fire its Phasers at the Plasma-F Torpedoes. Knowing that the Peladine CA still carried two armed Plasma-S Torpedoes, the Federation CA decided to fire Phasers at the 2 Plasma-F Torpedoes.

The 2 Plasma-F Torpedoes struck the Federation CA. The #4 Shield on the Federation CA collapsed and the Federation CA took Internals.

The Peladine CA launched its 2 Sabot Plasma-S Torpedoes next. This time, the Federation CA performed Emergency Deceleration and launched its Wild Weasel. The Wild Weasel effectively countered both Plasma-S Torpedoes and the 4 incoming Drones. However, it left the Federation CA in an extremely vulnerable position for the Peladine CA.

The Peladine CA carefully approached the stationary Federation CA from the rear. At Range 1, the Peladine CA fired its full compliment of PH-2s and PH-1s through the Federation CA's down #4 Shield. The Federation CA took massive Internals. Lastly, the Peladine CA launched 2 more Drones. The 2 Drones flew right through the Federation CA's down #4 Shield and finished the Duel.

Please see the Notes/Suggestions/Conclusions section at the bottom.


PELADINE CA (BPV 169, PLUS REFIT, Y175 REFIT, SABOT REFIT, Type B Drone Racks with Type I-M (Speed 20) Drones) vs FEDERATION CA (BPV 151, With PLUS, CAR, AWR Refits, All Drones are Fast Drones-Speed 32, No Transporter Bombs) DUEL #1:


TURN 1

The Federation CA is moving slow. The Peladine CA is moving slow.

Neither ship fires this turn.

TURN 2

Both ships are approaching each other. They are 22 Hexes apart.

The Peladine CA is moving fast. The Federation CA is moving at medium speed.

Federation fires 4 proximity Photons at Range 11. 8 points of damage are absorbed by reinforcement.

Federation CA launches 1 Drone, Speed 32.

Federation fires 4 PH-1s at Range 11. After subtracting reinforcement, 7 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Peladine CA launches 2 Drones, Speed 20.

Peladine fires 1 PH-2 at 1 Drone. The Drone is destroyed.

Peladine fires 5 PH-2s at Range 7. After subtracting reinforcement, 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #4.

Federation fires 2 PH-1s at Range 7. 7 points of damage are marked off Shield #1.

Peladine fires 2 PH-1s at Range 7. 4 points of damage are marked off Shield #4.

At this point in the Duel, the Federation CA has taken 8 points of damage to Shield #4.

The Peladine CA has taken 14 points of damage to Shield #1.

TURN 3

The Peladine CA is chasing the Federation CA. They are 7 Hexes apart.

2 Drones are homing in on the Federation CA. The 2 Drones are 7 Hexes away from the Federation CA.

The Peladine CA is moving fast. The Federation CA is moving at medium speed.

Peladine launches 2 Sabot Plasma-F Torpedoes, Speed 40.

Federation fires 2 PH-1s and 2 PH-3s at a Plasma-F Torpedo. The Plasma-F Torpedo loses 8 Warhead Strength.

2 Plasma-F Torpedoes strike the Federation CA. The Federation CA uses Reserve Power to reinforce Shield #4. Shield #4 collapses. The Federation CA takes 2 Internals.

The Federation CA loses 1 AUX.

Peladine launches 2 Sabot Plasma-S Torpedoes, Speed 40.

Peladine launches 2 Drones, Speed 20.

The Federation CA performs Emergency Deceleration.

The Federation CA launches a Wild Weasel.

The 2 Plasma-S Torpedoes and 4 Drones are now locked onto the Wild Weasel.

The 2 Plasma-S Torpedoes destroy the Wild Weasel.

The Peladine CA takes advantage of the fact that the Federation CA cannot move. The Peladine CA approaches from the rear.

Peladine CA fires 9 PH-2s and 2 PH-1s at Range 1 through the down Shield #4. The Federation CA takes 49 Internals.

Peladine CA launches 2 Drones, Speed 20.

2 Drones strike the Federation CA through the down Shield #4. The Federation takes 24 more Internals.

The Federation CA is now Crippled. The Peladine CA has only sustained 14 points of damage to Shield #1.

* NOTE: If the Federation CA did not Emergency Decelerate and launch a Wild Weasel, it would have taken 60 points of damage (from the 2 Plasma-S Torpedoes) on Shield #3. This would have collapsed Shield #3 and caused Internals. Then the Peladine CA would have fired more PH-2s, PH-1s and Drones, resulting in even more Internals. The only advantage the Federation CA would have gained is that it would have maintained its speed.

The Peladine CA has won a Decisive Victory!


Captain Greeneye of the Peladine-CA Steadfast states, "Seeking weapons always win over direct-fire weapons, Human."


NOTES/SUGGESTIONS/CONCLUSIONS

* The following observations assume that the Peladine CA is supposed to be the equivalent of other Alpha Section CA's. If this is not true, then the following statements must be reassessed *

1) Our initial impressions of the Peladine CA is that it is too powerful. The Peladine CA easily defeated the Federation CA. In addition, the Peladine CA only took minor damage to one Shield. Further playtesting is required to confirm this.

2) The Peladine CA has Plasmas that are the equal of a Gorn Battlecruiser and a Romulan Firehawk. All three ships have two Plasma-S Torpedoes and 2 Plasma-F Torpedoes. However, the Peladine CA has 2 Drone Racks in addition to its Plasma arsenal. This is a very potent combination that may be too powerful. Further playtesting is required to confirm this.

3) The Peladine CA has Phasers that are on par with the Romulan Firehawk and Gorn Battlecruiser.

The Peladine CA has 9 Phaser-2s and 2 Phaser-1s. The Peladine CA has good firing arcs for its Phasers. 6 of the Phaser-2s are FA, the 2 PH-1s are 360, and 3 of the Phaser-2s are RX.

In comparison, the Romulan Firehawk has 5 PH-1s (one PH-1 is RX) and 4 PH-3s. The Gorn Battlecruiser has 8 PH-1s and 2 PH-3s. The Federation CA has 8 PH-1s (two RH) and 2 PH-3s.

4) The Peladine CA has standard Shields. It has a 30 point #1 Shield and all other Shields are 24 points. This seems fine for a CA.

5) One item that may contribute to the Peladine CA being too powerful is its Total Power. The Peladine CA has 40 Total Power (plus 4 Batteries).

The Romulan Firehawk has 38 Total Power (plus 5 Batteries). The Gorn Battlecruiser has 38 Total Power (plus 4 Batteries). The Federation CA has 36 Total Power (plus 4 Batteries).

2 points of power may not seem like a lot, but we all know that an extra 2 points of power per turn can be extremely helpful. But the real question is: Why does the Peladine CA have more power than the Romulan Firehawk and Gorn Battlecruiser? The Drones don't take extra power and, other than that, the Peladine CA has the same Plasma costs and Phaser costs as the Romulan Firehawk and Gorn Battlecruiser.

6) The Turn Mode seemed fine on the Peladine CA.

7) The Sabot Refit was very effective. This may have been another factor that made the Peladine CA seem very powerful.

8) We did not use the Plasma Bolt strategy in this Playtest Duel. I'm sure this function will be utilized in future Peladine Duels.

9) The Phaser-2s did not seem like a real disadvantage during this Playtest Duel. The Phaser-2s were able to deal significant damage at close range. I'm sure the effectiveness of the Phaser-2s will show more when future Duels are fought at middle range.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, November 29, 2013 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Norman Dizon:

A quick review says your Federation captain was very inexperienced against plasma ships, particularly ones with the Sabot upgrade, and not very experienced against a drone-armed ship.

When you have one drone rack against an opponent with multiple drone racks, the best use of your own drone rack is for counter-drone launches. You are not going to tie up enough of the opposing ship's firepower launching drones at it to make a difference. So you use your drone rack to stop some of his drones allowing you to use your own phasers more offensively, rather than tying them down with the drone defense mission.

He knew the Sabot plasma-Ss were armed, and was facing the use of the weasel, but he sacrificed his reserve power for shield reinforcement without considering that if he did Emergency Decelerate his only maneuver option would be tactical warp maneuvers. I am not saying that having Tacs would have saved him, but if you are going to stop the ship you should keep that option open.

As noted in another topic, you might want to discuss the battle and then replay it reversing the captains.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Friday, November 29, 2013 - 04:37 pm: Edit

Hi SPP. We really appreciate the advice.

In the future, we will use the single drone rack to counter the enemy ships' drones. We will also discuss usage of his reserve power for shield reinforcement when it could have been used for tactical maneuvers.

Our players vary in experience and skill. This seems to lead to a nice mix of playtesting results. We almost always alternate captains between Duels.

This is only the first of three Duels involving the Peladine CA and the Federation CA. We ran the Peladine Duel for a brief change in-between our Triangulum and Nicozian Duels. I will post more battle summaries here as we complete more Duels in the future.

Thanks again for the feedback.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, November 29, 2013 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Norman Dizon:

Well, do not get fixated (please read tone as conversational not harsh or demanding). Using your solo drone rack for counter drone is a tactic, and as with any tactic is situation dependent. If you find yourself in a position to put a (some exaggeration here for effect) a type-IV drone through an opponent's down shield you should not withhold the launch because "i need to use my drone rack for drone defense." Everything is situation dependent.

As a Fed CA you have eight labs, and it may be useful to identify the incoming Peladine drones and not assume they are type-Is. There might be a type-IV, and withholding your own drone launch until you can "lab" the enemy drones will give you the optimum use of your own drones.

Neither side should just use "standard" drones (although the fact that you have only one drone rack and it holds only four spaces, i.e., type-I drones, versus the Peladine's two type-B drone racks holding 12 spaces of drones kind of forces that choice). They should be experimenting with drone options that they think might better their chances (a Peladine facing a Fed might consider having each of his racks loaded with two type-IVs and two type-Is, for example, to complicate the Federation commander's drone defense situation and still leaving him able to put together two scatter-pack shuttles with all type-I drones (assuming a couple of type-Is bought with Commander's Option points).

Because the Peladine ship has so many drone options (type-B drone racks, plenty of reloads for scatter packs), the Fed may really consider that he needs the T-bombs to fend off a full scatter-pack of drones. And he should be grateful that the Peladine CA can only control six seeking weapons at a time, which makes it somewhat difficult for it to juggle two scatter-packs at one time and use its own drone racks.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, November 29, 2013 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Heck, if you KNOW you are going to be facing drones in the Fed CA consider ADDs or Dogfight drones on the rack...

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Thanks for the Drone advice, SPP and Mike. We will try to incorporate these ideas into our Playtest Duels.

It was our initial impression that the Peladine CA (with all refits) has a bit too many weapons, with 2 Plasma-S (Sabot) Torpedoes, 2 Plasma-F (Sabot) Torpedoes, 2 Drone Racks, 9 PH-2s and 2 PH-1s. However, this guess can only be confirmed through further Playtesting.

Your Drone advice will help to fairly assess just what the Federation CA can do against the Peladine CA. Thanks again.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Another thing worth considering for a ship with a smaller drone load than the opponent is a MW drone. On a Fed CA it's a little expensive since it's drone percentage doesn't permit any free reloads but being able to counter three enemy drones with a single launch is very useful - it would take several ADD shots to achieve that.
I'll also note that the Fed CA is weak for it's BPV against plasma even among Basic Set ships (let alone 2013 designs) - Fed/Rom fights are balanced by sky-high Rom BPVs. Since Peladine BPV's should reflect their capability against alt-historic opponents I'd suggest testing against Lyrans and their neighbours.
Good to see reports though. Playtesting is surprisingly hard work - satisfying, but taking a lot of effort to make notes on tactics, ships and systems.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Anti-drones in large numbers with overlapping fields of fire and some freedom of maneuver to delay the impact of the drones can be very effective. A single launcher is much less so. Type-VI drones in a type-G drone rack have the same launch rate as normal drones (one a turn), which means they can generally counter one drone a turn (but it is an almost, I say again almost, guaranteed success. The almost comes in in that the type-VI itself is easily shot down (three damage points compared to four for a type-I drone). So you cannot really depend on them if the enemy ship is "following its drones in" which is not uncommon. Still, a type-G drone rack can have eight of them, or six of them a type-I drone, allowing you some chance to counter one of a Peladine CA's type-B drone racks and then slip in your type-I drone to hit him when he is reloading his own drone racks.

It is all about options and how you plan to conduct the fight [and whether or not your opponent got the memo on how he is supposed to fall for your clever ruse (GRIN)].

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Thanks for the additional Drone advice, SPP and Andrew. The Multi-Warhead Drone sounds useful. It seems there are multiple ways for the Fed to try to counter the Peladine's Drones.

In my opinion, it was not the Drones that posed the real danger to the Federation CA during the first Playtest Duel, it was the Peladine's Plasmas. If you review the Duel details, you will see it was the two Sabot Plasma-F Torpedoes which brought down the Federation CA's #4 Shield. And later, it was the two Sabot Plasma-S Torpedoes that threatened the Federation CA with 60 points of damage.

It is hard enough to try to outrun a Speed 32 Plasma, but a Sabot Plasma is something else. The Speed 40 advantage is very difficult to deal with. I think this is why the Federation Captain decided to slow down and use the Wild Weasel.

The Drones were a threat, but they did not seem like the critical factor (to me at least). Or perhaps it was the combination of Drones and Plasmas that were especially effective?

I agree that the Fed's BPV is weak compared to other Plasma Empires (like the Romulans). I think it is also true that the Peladine's BPV is commensurate with its neighbors.

But in theory, BPV should be BPV. Anyone should be able to pull out a ship with a certain BPV and have it fight an equal BPV without either side having an overwhelming advantage. Of course, this is not always true. But the Peladine's BPV should not only work with their direct neighbors, their BPV should work against any Empire.

You are right, playtesting is hard work, but very rewarding at the same time. We will Playtest the Peladine against other empires, such as the Lyrans and their neighbors, but this will come later. When we start Playtesting a New Empire, we typically go back to the Basic Set and start with some of the basic heavy cruisers (assuming that the New Empire is supposed to be a match for the Alpha Sector CAs).

There is nothing like bringing out the old Enterprise, NCC-1701, and seeing how she fares!

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Saturday, November 30, 2013 - 09:44 pm: Edit

It would be useful to take two spaces of dogfight drones/add rounds and two spaces of drones in your G-rack.

It gives the Fed interesting options.

For example, you could take a dogfight drone, three ADD rounds and two type I drones of whatever type.

With double reloads, that would be six drones you could put in a scatterpack. Your opponent (at least initially) will just see six drones - there could be a type IV in there, or six dogfights, or who knows what?

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 05:50 pm: Edit

> But in theory, BPV should be BPV. Anyone should be able to pull out a ship with a certain BPV and have it fight an equal BPV without either side having an overwhelming advantage.

I disagree with this - BPV should (and mostly does) reflect capability against each race's primary historic opponents. That's one of the reasons why the BPVs of balanced-against-the-field tourney ships vary so much. It can also be seen to some extent outside tourney, for instance Orions - a BR with plasma is closely matched in weapons and power to the Gorn HDD whereas a BR with Disr/Drone is short several heavy weapons compared to the D5 or CM.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Hi Andrew. I think the best we can do is agree to disagree. And that is not a bad thing, it makes for great conversation.

BPV is such a vague and inconsistent topic that I doubt anyone can be 100% right about it. With the thousands of ships that exist, there will always be some example that can be found to support your position.

I appreciate your viewpoint and I think you are totally right in where you are coming from. Your logic makes sense to me.

From my perspective, I think of it as if a new rookie asked, "What is BPV anyway?"

Then I would pull out the Basic Set Rulebook and read (S2.1):

"BPVs exist as a device to estimate the relative value of different units. It is not an exact science, and some unusual combinations of units that have equal BPVs will not be balanced."

One can note that nowhere in the definition of BPV does it state that it is only accurate with historic opponents.

Another reason for my understanding of BPV (which differs from yours, of course) is because of the addition of new empires. Lets say that I create Star Fleet Battles from scratch (just a hypothetical example). I create the Klingons and make sure their BPVs are balanced against the Kzintis, Federation, and Tholians. Everything works out well.

Later, I add the Andromedans. Is their BPV no longer an accurate comparison because they are not historic opponents to the Klingons? How would an SFB player ever be able to play additional expansions unless the idea of BPV worked all across the board?

What happens when I add the Seltorians? Vudar? All of Omega? Magellanic? Nicozians? Does the balanced Klingon BPV still only apply to its direct historical opponents? Or should BPV work all across the board, no matter who or what gets added to the game?

I am just explaining where I am coming from. I am not attacking your position, in fact, I see exactly where you are coming from.

Perhaps the majority of SFB players agree with you. But maybe there are few (hopefully) who find my arguments compelling. I think it is cool (and fun) to disagree at times. It benefits everyone.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 08:47 pm: Edit

BPV is definitely not accurate against all races ships in the game. Take Rom vs Hydran do you want to anchor a ship with short range fusions and gats? All those fighters kill plasma. Some races handle drones real well others do not. Andros are a good example feds with there photons can overload panels. seltorans well... get the point

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 09:16 pm: Edit

Hi Gregory. I agree with you that BPV is definitely not accurate against all races ships in the game.

My original statement said "in theory" BPVs should be equal. I would imagine that everyone who has ever played SFB will agree that BPVs are not, in actuality, equal.

I would ask, "What are we striving for with BPV?" (Note that striving does not mean achieving)

1) Ships of equal BPV should be balanced, no matter what race or ship.

2) Ships of equal BPV should only be balanced if they are historical opponents

3) BPVs are only approximations and can be way off

4) BPVs are never right and shouldn't be paid any attention to

5) Scenarios dictate what ships to use, so who needs BPV?

6) Who cares about BPV? Lets just pick some fun ships and play!

I happen to believe #1 even though I know it will never truly be achieved. It is just a benchmark goal to strive for, in my opinion.

I'm sure many others believe #2-6. That's fine too.

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 09:38 pm: Edit

But getting back to the Peladine Playtesting...

Even if you start with the Premise that the Fed will lose because the Peladine's BPV is balanced only against its historical opponents, there are still things to be learned from running a Playtest Duel between a Peladine CA and a Federation CA.

We will be going around the Alpha Sector playtesting different opponents against the Peladine. I'm sure that, sometime in the future, we will see how the Peladine does against its historical opponents.

By Andrew Harding (Warlock) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 03:47 am: Edit

Yep, enough of my sidetracking. The world is run by those who turn up and you're the one that's doing that. (Can't resist one last comment though - in addition to your list era, rules in use, map size, terrain, fleet size and composition all have significant impacts. It's amazing bpv works as well as it does.)

By Norman Dizon (Normandizon) on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Hi SPP. I was reviewing the Peladine Background and History. What exactly are the Peladine in terms of a Species? What do they look like?

The Peladine History talks about two sentient species: a land-dwelling Ranel and a sea-dwelling Phelan. Later, it states that "The first space crews were composed entirely of Ranel volunteers, since the capacity to life the amount of water needed to sustain a Phelan astronaut was too expensive to lift into space." And after the Peladine were conquered, the History says, "The Lyrans kept the Peladine confined to their planet, with the exception of a few individuals displayed in zoos on Lyrantan..."

That is about all we are told.

So are the Ranel catpeople? Are they feline humanoids? Are the Phelan dolphin-men (just guessing)? Or shark-men? Maybe the Ranel look just like Humans? And the Phelan are like Mer-Men?

Sometimes it helps to know what the species looks like when players are trying to get into the spirit of the game. Please let me know if you have any other information. Thank you.