As the Gorn CL can be converted to a Battlecruiser or Command Cruiser, the Gorn Navy took a look at converting a CLE to a BCE in an effort to provide a little more firepower to the unbuilt Gorn CVS squadron. While it was ultimately determined that such a large escort was not needed; the design study did make it to the highest levels of the Gorn Navy.

Changes from the BC to the BCE:
Use the wings of the CLE and add two ready racks, one to each shuttle bay. This ship would have full Aegis, with a YIS date of Y175.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 11:20 am: Edit

I think the Gorns wouldn't build such as ship, they prioritized building carriers less thann all of the other major empires from what I gather.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 01:05 pm: Edit

No doubt they designed this. For grins, try one with a large rear bubble.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Well, if the Gorns could (in theory) do this, then the Lyrans could also at least design something like this - take a two-hull escort and put a third section in the middle. IIRC the Lyrans had only one major carrier but over-protected it with escorts compared to other empires' carrier groups.

Edit: do this with a Panther-E and you'd get a Wildcat-E dreadnought-sized "escaught". LOL!

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 03:04 pm: Edit

As small as the Gorn Navy is in numbers it would be more logical to develop larger escorts than build more to "overstuff" a carrier group under the F&E rules.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 03:16 pm: Edit

The Gorns cannot overstuff carrier groups in F&E.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 05:41 pm: Edit

The Romulans and ISC have the potential to muster enough damage to kill any entire Gorn carrier group below the size of a SCS group outright in F&E especially if a mauler or X-ships are available. Only the MDS would have 3 escorts while the BCV, BCS, and CVS would have 2 escorts under F&E (515.25) and SFB (R6.49), (R6.50), and (R6.52) respectively. The only way to increase the density of these groups is to build a larger heavy escort.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Terryoc:

Most of the Lyran escorts historically were trimarans (DWE and CWE). AFAIK, the Lyrans never built a CLE to serve as the basis for a conversion, while the Gorn did build a limited number of CLEs.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Well, I like it and put it into Communique 142 coming out Tuesday.

Suddenly inspired me to take a Lyran escort and add a double size carrier center section for a self-escorting carrier!

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Jason, the Lyrans do have a CLE. It is in Captain's Log #46.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar2) on Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 11:35 pm: Edit

SVC, adding the CVM (NVM?) middle to a CWE?

By Charles Chapel (Ctchapel) on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 02:20 am: Edit

How about a Lioness carrier with fighters replacing what would have been the repair boxes on the DN center section.

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 08:00 am: Edit

Turtle:

Thanks! I had mis-remembered that as being conjectural, but the description does state that one or two were built.

By Jean Sexton (Jsexton) on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 08:40 am: Edit

Guys, please stay on the Gorns in this topic. If you want to talk about Lyrans, make it a new proposal.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, October 09, 2017 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Why not just do an HDd’s with an “emergency rear bubble” ala cvdd, with escort boxes (I.e. plans-d, aegis, shuttle w ready racks.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Scott, the more permanent solution of the BCE gives you a full sized cruiser escort that is not a "war" hull. This ship, had it been built, would in theory be available and able to escort a Gorn SCS if one was used in Operation Unity. Giving the idea of this ship a lifespan of 25+ years of service had one been built in Y175.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Wouldn't an HD converted to a CM escorts (CME) better keep the limited BCs on the line?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 - 08:16 pm: Edit

Thomas,

There's no reason why both a CME and HEE (HDD-Emergency Escort) can't be made.

I agree w/ Chuck's comment that the CM are more plentiful than the BC-hulls. CL's will be converted to DNCs, and BCs to BCHs.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 07:41 am: Edit

Scott, BCs are most likely to be converted to CCHs. BCH production, to include BCV and BCS, is limited to 1 per year by any means. As such it is probably wiser to build them in place of a BC or CC on the turn you are not building a DN.

The CME should have it's own topic. I didn't start one because I am having some difficulty with the changes from the CM base SSD to CME even using the HDE as a guide for those changes. Feel free to start one if you like.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Converting a CLE to a BCE is by definition about as complex as converting a BC to a BCE.

While you are replacing the wings and adding a rear bubble and large engines to a CLE to make a BCE, you are installing the aegis system on a BC to make it a BCE (replacing the plasma-F launchers with plasma-D racks and the reload systems for those racks and installing ready racks in the shuttle bays are comparatively simple, but the problem is installing the systems needed to make aegis work). If aegis was easy to install it would already have been standard on ships long before limited aegis was just naturally part of X-technology.

Same (aegis problem) would apply to a CM to CME conversion, but obviously an HDE to CME conversion would be much simpler since you do not replace the wings of the HDE, just add the rear bubble and replace the HDD engine with CM engines.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 04:11 pm: Edit

The Kzintis would look at an upgraded Lyran CLE with some alarm. A self escorting carrier center module on a Lyran CLE would be even more alarming.

A Lyran Lioness carrier or. DN carrier variant with a double sized carrier module sounds even more challenging. Must look to see if it has already been done...

Not sure what the Kzintis response would be, but might be fun to think about it!

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 07:43 pm: Edit

SPP, my comments were not about the actual physical and software changes from the CLE to BCE or BC to BCE, but rather how I was viewing the differences on the SSDs themselves.

My assumption about an actual conversion performed by the Gorns is that would be just as expensive to convert a CLE to a BCE as the CL to BC; at least in terms of cost in F&E.

For the purposes of cost in F&E various factors would come in to play on the final cost of any such conversion. An uncrippled CLE converted to an uncrippled BCE would be 3 EPs.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 11:10 pm: Edit

For comparison's sake, the aforementioned Communiqué issue (and FC Ship Card) has been posted here.

Note that in FC terms, Aegis fire control works somewhat differently than in SFB, though the "baked-in" point value is more akin to that of limited Aegis rather than full Aegis.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Saturday, October 14, 2017 - 03:21 am: Edit

The Gorn BCE makes sense in FC, which a bit differently than SFB (and F&E). In FC, your escorts protect the whole fleet, and this bad boy can stand in the line of battle with its S-torpedoes while still shooting down drones with the plasma-Ds. It gives up the F-torps to do it though, which at least in FC are very valuable. Good fleet ship, not as good a duellist as the BC (Probably).