Heavy interceptors, nah

Heavy PFs, Hell No

Warp sleds, Hell No

SCS with three squadrons, oh I guess not auto reject, but unfavorable

Reloaders, I cannot stop laughing

Optimize death riders, how?

Self-flushing, no

Armed workboats, nah

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Still leaves the podlet proposal, and the Slammers.

Any other proposals that make Sense
in a future K-2 module?

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:07 pm: Edit

SVC;

HPFs, acknowledged. Sigh.

A small idea, Federation produced non-combat work boats, i.e. cargo, recovery, survey, etc., likely by the Cygnans, and not necessarily Mustang shaped.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:09 pm: Edit

What about the discussions about improving the Klingon G1 police boat?

By the time of the Andromedan war, is there need for a more powerful G series Klingon police unit?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Adm: are you talking about a variant of the modular courier?

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:14 pm: Edit

In all seriousness, there's only so many ways for proposals to go at this point.

- utility PFs and Skiffs, which we're drowning in
- larger tenders, which we're already seeing with double-flotilla ships and X-tenders
- larger PFs, which are hell-no
- an end-run around an existing rule, which turns into throwing lots of spaghetti at the wall

Increasing FiCons effectiveness is a soft place to shove sideways, as those rules were written before we had stuff like remote control megafighters, and it doesn't require changes to the PF itself. Specific FiCon tenders, purpose-built fighters, something.

Are there places in the map where attrition units - manned or remote - can go and ships cannot? Say, something like a Souldra dark matter void?

Can ships launched extended-range gunboat strikes into these areas, which perhaps in turn send their own megafighter strikes even deeper? Can a battleship-sized tender get a hex deeper into the void before launching a strike? This could turn a "void war" into an attrition units arms race, as bigger/better/faster ships is not where you want to put your resources.

/flingspaghetti

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Steve Z. The only limits are our own imaginations (as limited by the Steves guidance...)

The topic is not limited to PFs or PFT designs.

You mentioned light PFs earlier. No doubt the Kzintis or Hydrans were experimenting with such at the time the Lyrans first developed PFs.

Skids existed for decades, no doubt there are other units that haven't been published that could be added to the game.

Personally, I would like to see if a skiff convoy can be used to support a drone only armed bomber squadron in a front line casual base...

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Jeff;

Fed work boats, I was thinking of mech-link capable units, survey ships, both naval and freighter based, could use the survey ones to speed up survey times in a system, or cover a larger area adequately. Freight units could use the cargo work boats to speed up time in a system, i.e. the free trader goes to Earth to load up, while sending a work boat to Ceres to drop off supplies, and get ores. The recovery one may be iffy, how many lost shuttles and cargo boats really need to be picked up? Skiffs and modular couriers are likely enough, but that give a basic idea of what I propose.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Can skiffs be carried on mech links? For some reason, I thought that was not allowed? Am I misremembering again?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 02:03 pm: Edit

a recovery work boat might be the responsibility of a planetary navy. Part of the total force pool, but not a lot of them.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 02:08 pm: Edit

No skiffs cannot be carried on mech-links, hence my suggestion for the more robust work boat. The Federation may be morally opposed to the use of gunboats, but there are clear advantages to the upgraded capabilities they bring over skiffs, or there would not be post war markets for them in Fed space. If someone can make a profit off of them, there will be locally designed, and built work boats.

Ad Copy;

Do you find that buying slave built Klingon work boats repugnant?

Are you unwilling to support the Orion Syndicate by using Orion designs?

Do you find the interior size of Kzinti and Gorn work boats too large to safely operate?

Do you not trust the security of you personal data on Romulan built work boats?

Introducing the only work boat built in Federation Space, designed and built by loyal Federation Citizens...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 02:15 pm: Edit

Skiffs cannot be on mech links, so you propose robust skiffs that CAN be on mech links?

You guys crack me up.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 03:07 pm: Edit

If they can be built, sure. Somebody will try and crack that market, and the post General War work boat glut will be used up.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Improved Crawford boxes:

Back in 2002 mr Crawford suggested that PF's could be fitted with "Packs" that would replace warp pods . He suggested six different types, that replaced the warp dash pods with other systems. (APR, impulse, battery, even some selected weapons such as phaser type E drone rack, ADD etc.)

It reduced the warp power available, and At a guess might even reduce the range such a PF could travel... but it allowed to trade systems at the cost of total power. Not sure if there was ever a formal proposal posted.

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Has anyone ever suggested "Neo-Tholian" PFs? Ones with a flatter form, carried in mixed flotillas with Arachnids, and able to operate docked to the back of them?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Jack, to my knowledge, no. I have not come across that Idea yet. Perhaps you should propose it?

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 05:43 pm: Edit

I have a stack of SSDs for Neo-Tholian PF variants that are marked as being submitted in 2002. (Not from me, but they've potentially been sitting in a file cabinet somewhere for a while.)

One of the sheets has a Tholian interceptor being used as the boom for a Neo-Tholian PF. The rest have small Neo doorstop-style booms.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Need to get that clarified.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Skiffs cannot be on mech links, so you propose robust skiffs that CAN be on mech links?

LET'S JUST SAY: "OH HELL NO!"

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve! I think Adm got the message! Grin.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 08:52 pm: Edit

DELETED

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 18, 2018 - 09:40 pm: Edit

On another subject:

John Trauger, TOS Crawford and a couple of others talked in the original K2 thread about a possible PFPFT.

Not entirely sure on the exact details but it appears to be a Size class 5 workboat variant that could dock (for resupply, refuel and rearming purposes) a PF squadron at a casual base.

Would such a tender be used for a PF campaign?

Various comments made included: the work boat need no special sensors as the scout PF would have SS. That the work boat would not have room to store a full set of dash pods for all the units in a PF flotilla, unless it used its own dash pods to equip a PF that lost its own dash pods in combat. That a WB might have "a collapsible" repair bay... but that it could only work on a single PF at a time, and must be on a planet, moon or asteroid for it to function. Not possible in deep space.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, February 19, 2018 - 01:39 am: Edit

How about an improvement of PF engines.

4 box regular and 2 box warp packs.

It would change the dynamic of damaged and dropping the packs...

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Monday, February 19, 2018 - 07:27 am: Edit

Well a bigger gunboat is a FF i would think and a crappy one at that.

The problem with attrition units in SFB. Is that a equal number of BPV attrition units vs a Ship on a open map will lose. Others may disagree with me on that point however in my experience that is true.
If the ship has room to maneuver it will win if well played by a competent player

Attrition units are great for adding fire power as in Hydran stingers/Kzinti fighters and PFs are gunboats. The Direct fire ones not as good as seeking weapon armed ones due to range of weapons.

Back to the above make them bigger and you have a crappy FF. Why do people think the Lyran PF is the weakest in the game. Range of disrupters and no seekers. A FF still has the to short of range.

Now a PF that a ship can drop of its Mech Link and act like a over sized MRS. That would be nice to have. larger drone racks on the PFs yes that would be good as well.

Just a few thoughts on the topic

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, February 19, 2018 - 09:43 am: Edit

Michael, it sounds like you are suggesting a modified dash pod system. I have to admit that I only rarely play PFs in combat with dash pods to avoid taking damage on the pods.

I will have to defer to others about the effect of your proposal... but I am intrigued about increasing the regular warp to 4 points. For some reason, I seem to recall that not all empires PFs use the same style/size PF engines. It might be that each case will have to be determined separately.