Archive through August 07, 2019
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development: Module Y4 (the new one): Archive through August 07, 2019
By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 03:16 pm: Edit

While I don't mind a Y module eventually, there are a lot more things I'd rather see firt, like everything that's been listed as 'soon' in recent years.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Remember that the last two (maybe three) years don't count because I was sick.

Remember that we can do anything; we cannot do everything on the same day or in the same year.

What's going on right now is I'm still trying to clean up the BBS bloat. Which means I go through proposal and project files looking for obsolete or irrelevant posts to delete. In that process, I often find good stuff and move it around. So I'm trying to take the last unused stuff from the Y3 folder, the "old" Y4 folder, and some other random stuff and move anything still usable to the "new" Y4 folder. Maybe that sparks some staffers and veteran players to work with those items and make them better, or more complete, or at least more thoroughly examined. When we can get to that project, we'll be miles ahead.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, July 28, 2019 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Nod, I understood what was happening.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - 01:34 pm: Edit

From what I can see, there doesn't seem to be much left in the old Module Y3 thread which hasn't been processed already.

I should note that, so far as "new" Early Years ships go, there is also a Kzinti YCA in Captain's Log #50 Supplemental File which might be worth considering here.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 12:18 am: Edit

early years survey cruisers.

I don't remember many of these.

By Jeffrey George Anderson (Jeff) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:03 am: Edit

They do have them already for most races/empires, Mike. One major difference between them and the survey ships from the General War era is a lack of special sensors.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, August 02, 2019 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Another item for the list:

Jack Andre Bohn said:

Quote:

Would a CM + D4 have the ability to separate? The rear hull would likely be useless, but the forward could go into independant action.



SVC responded:
Quote:

I am liking the D4+CM thing a lot. Get it copied into the Y2 topic.



Found here.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 11:39 am: Edit

Another (obvious) suggestion: Orion YCA (pirate version). Discussion here.

If included, it would be great if Petrick threw in the history of how the nascent Orions finally organized into the Cartels we know and loathe (uh, love; know and love). I mean I took my take at that history in the discussion, but I have to figure I made big mistakes, if not being outright wrong.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Alternative non-unified ISC fleet discussion.

Really, this is an intro to four obvious, parallel conjectural "design studies"
- What if the Federation unified early and had unified W-ships?
- What if the Federation unified late in the MY and used updated W-ships in the Y-era?
- What if the ISC unified early and had unified W-ships?
- What if the ISC unified late in (their) MY and used updated W-ships in the Y-era?

Obviously, the link above only hits that fourth point. But, the other three are so obvious, I figured they could all be addressed together. (Which means dismissed, as this is four whole sets of conjectural ships that SVC keeps maintaining no one wants.)

(There is also the other additional questions of, "What happens if the Feds/ISC never make a unified fleet?" But, that is outside the scope of a Y-Module, so is not directly addressed here.)

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Are there any "Early Years" monitors? I don't recall seeing any. That could be a possible unit type that would provide ships for all (or at least most) of the empires.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Alan,

Already mentioned in the July 28, 2019 archive link.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Yup, so it is. I must have just missed it.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Players tell me they want real ships, not alternative timelines and might-have-been-builts.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 08:20 pm: Edit

Yes, if a Y4 gets dome some day eventually, I don't want conjectural units to be a major part of it.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Monday, August 05, 2019 - 11:55 pm: Edit

Quote:

Players tell me they want real ships, not alternative timelines and might-have-been-builts



Something SFB hasn't done often (it has definitely done, just not OFTEN) is the sort of thing real navies deal with moderately regularly - real ships that were built, but really shouldn't have been. Designs obsolete before they were complete but finished anyway, one-off designs intended as an alternative path to the one ultimately settled on, 'competing contract builds', failed technology demonstrators repurposed to standard tech to get some value from the hull, etc.

While the GW era has seen its share of that, as the R-modules have expanded to cover more and more scope...the Y-era really hasn't, quite, and that feels surprising as the Y-era will be prior to the largest wars in the setting that led to lessons being learned and designs homogenizing some.

While there are obviously plenty of entirely-new Empires eligible, here (Borak, Vudar, and Tellarites obvious choices that we know fought in this era)...these 'concept one offs/bad designs/alternative path' sort of things would be a good way to see the other primary SFU Empires get some representation.

By Richard B. Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 12:01 am: Edit

I don't want to see those before all the other things currently on the schedule. I don't think players really want 'bad' designs that were one offs.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 02:04 am: Edit

Quote:

While the GW era has seen its share of that, as the R-modules have expanded to cover more and more scope...the Y-era really hasn't, quite, and that feels surprising as the Y-era will be prior to the largest wars in the setting that led to lessons being learned and designs homogenizing some.



I couldn't agree more. The Y-era is lacking in unique ships. Too often ship classes just feel reverse-engineered from later time periods. The Early Years should live and breath as it's own era, not just be a "Middle Years Lite". There's a great line about the Gorns of this era in Module Y1 about how they "like the other races, did not know they were in the 'early time' but thought they were the most modern Gorns to date".

Quote:

I don't think players really want 'bad' designs that were one offs.



I don't think that is an accurate description of what Xander is proposing. Dinosaurs may be extinct but that does mean that they were poorly adapted for the era in which they lived. Nor is a WWII battleship a 'bad' design just because it later became obsolete.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 09:06 am: Edit

That's not what he said. Look at HMS Bristol, a costly design failure that nobody wanted in their squadron.

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 02:49 pm: Edit

HMS Bristol is a good example ("The role which Bristol was built for never materialized")

SMS Blucher another ("When the details of the Invincible class came to light, it was too late to redesign Blücher, and there were no funds for a redesign, so work proceeded as scheduled. Blücher was therefore arguably obsolete even before her construction started")

The hilariously over-gunned Swedish sailing warship Vasa certainly qualifies ("Vasa was dangerously unstable and top-heavy with too much weight in the upper structure of the hull. Despite this lack of stability it was ordered to sea and foundered only a few minutes after encountering a wind stronger than a breeze.")

IJN Shinano could count, too - completed too far along as a super-battleship of the Yamato class, the conversion to a carrier would have been unsatisfactory at best, with a bewildering fuel cost for its size ("Shinano was the heaviest aircraft carrier yet built, a record she held until the 81,000-metric-ton (80,000-long-ton) USS Forrestal was launched in 1954.") and diminutive flight group - only a couple squadrons.

The Pegasus-class hydrofoil probably another example - kept alive for little reason more than being the pet project of the CNO, but at staggering cost (relative to their size/value), and without a real mission.

etc...history abounds with such designs.

Quote:

I don't want to see those before all the other things currently on the schedule. I don't think players really want 'bad' designs that were one offs.



I wouldn't suggest it as a major product feature, no. But on the other hand - you're going to want to have at least a couple of Star Fleet (outside of the Tellarites), Klingon, Romulan, Gorn, Tholian, and Kzinti ships in it alongside the major product features of new races. These kind of one-offs might be suitable for a few of those.

Recall that at least one important criteria for new ships introduced in this era is a reason why those same ships DON'T exist in the General War-era. "It was a bad design" is a good explanation.

By John Sickels (Johnsickels) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 06:20 pm: Edit

There are a few of these like the Klingon LD5, but I agree that more would be very gool, especially in the EY and MY eras.

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 06:42 pm: Edit

The fact that nobody wants one in their squadron is not a reason for not putting one in their squadron. You go to war with the army you have...

"If you have two or more destroyers in a fleet, roll a die. On a 6, one of them becomes the Bristol."

(Taken to its logical conclusion, we end up with a whole stable of one-off ships - both good and bad - that aren't on the build schedule but that can randomly appear in patrol battles.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 08:16 pm: Edit

History abounds with such designs but players do not want to buy them.

Even if we gave them away for free, they still take ADB time to create and check and that same time could better be spent doing SSDs that players do want.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Seems more like a special scenario rule. The Fed CA Yorktown suffered from malfunctions as shown in several scenarios and fiction.

By Mike Bennett (Mike) on Tuesday, August 06, 2019 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Hey! Don't pick on Yorktown! :)

It's my favorite ship!

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Wednesday, August 07, 2019 - 10:59 am: Edit

When she was built the captain said "Lets see what she's got". We'll, she sure found out.

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