Carnivon SRV
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module C6R:
Carnivon SRV
To the powers that be! I was wondering why is there no wartime carrier version of the Carnivon Survey Cruiser. The ship itself has enough shuttles to be able to substitute for 6 fighters and still have a couple of admin left.
In F&E terms, the Carnivons are kinda small really. Maybe they just didn't get around to it.
...
Do they have such a ship in SFB atm?
Majead;
Since the modern era Carnavons are fairly new, and are really only in Module C6, they likely haven't gotten to releasing an SRV yet.
Richard;
The Carnivon SR is in Module C6, page 83 of the SSD booklet, Rule Number R19.16.
I know the SR is in C6, I was asking of the proposed SRV (which from the context of your statement I assume is not).
With GW-era Carnivon (and Paravians) ships, if it isn't in C6, it doesn't exist. That can obviously change in the future, but right now C6 is it.
While I'm no expert, Majead, and I like the idea of using ANYONE's survey ship (
), my gut feelings about what the Carnivons would have in their Survey Carrier seems like the ship would be giving up too much (when compared to a base CA, which the SR is based on) than what the Survey Carrier would get.
I'm probably not going to be too clear here, but I'll try...
The fighter wing on the Survey Carrier, the six fighters, would almsot guaranteed consist of two Hyenas and four Jackals. While the Jackals would add to the anti-drone (and anti-fighter) defenses for a fleet, it comes at the cost of the loss of the two Death Bolt racks, the Heel Nippers, half the Disruptor Cannon firepower, and the reduction of the forward phasers from Phaser-Ones to Phaser-Twoes. While the presence of the two Hyenas compensates (a bit) for the loss of Disruptor Cannons, even THAT isn't complete.
(Just as a quick aside, when I was doing the Tholian battle tactics for the Battleforce article, the Heel Nippers and ESPECIALLY Death Bolts REALLY had me wrapped up for quite a while on how the heck I was supposed to DEAL with them! Your battleforce proved the biggest headache for me to try and deal with; you came up with a GREAT one! )
Getting back to the subject you brought up with this thread, there's another important aspect of the SR design; namely the forward phasers. The base (CA) hull had all four of the forward phasers with Phaser-One fire control, the SR was built with Phaser-Twoes; something shared with the Death Bolt Cruiser (R19.17), which is described in the first sentence of the ship desciption as a support type ship. To me, that says the Carnivons intended the Survey Cruiser to solely be an "Other-Than-Front-Line" ship.
For this reason, I suspect that Carnivon High Command would probably prefer to use DWVs (R19.37), which keep a Heel Nipper AND have an extra pair of Jackals (and thus improved anti-drone and anti-fighter capabilities) with their fleets, rather than try to shoehorn those fighters onto the Survey Ship.
(On the other hand, I'd think that the battery of tractor beams on board calls for this ship to have casual gunboats attached )
The Carnivons employed an Extra Special Sensor on their Survey Cruiser which resembled a Giant Black Dog Nose mounted on the front of their ship in order to Sniff Out their Prey.
Norman Dizon:
Okay, who has been spilling State Secrets?
Security!!!!
Yeah, but that dog don't hunt.
(You thought that was a Secret? The Carnivon Extra Special Sensor is nothing compared to this Ultra Top-Top Secret Information!)
KZINTI ANTI-CARNIVON PORK CHOP SHUTTLE
* Requires 3 Turns to Arm
* Admin Shuttle is filled with Stinky Socks and Old Underwear to generate the Strongest Odors
* 5 Points of Energy is required on the First Turn. This enables the Pork Chop to be defrosted from the freezer, transported into the Admin Shuttle, and Baked to a Tender Yummy Irresistible Flavor in a Nuclear Anti-Matter Oven.
* 4 Points of Energy is required on the Second Turn. This allows the Seasoning of the Pork Chop to occur. Rare Spices, Red Wine, White Wine, Beer, Mushrooms, Pepper, Salt, A-1 Steak Sauce, Chili Peppers, Onions, Soy Sauce, Vinegar, Bacon Bits, and Grounded Milkbones are absorbed into the Pork Chop making it Delicious, Tasty, and Mouth-Watering.
* 3 Points of Energy is required on the Third Turn. This allows Special Vents to be activated on the Admin Shuttle that will shoot the Delicious Aroma out into space for sensitive noses to follow. It also allows a Special Video Broadcast of the Pork Chop to be transmitted directly to the enemy ship's View Screen.
* Once the Anti-Carnivon Pork Chop Shuttle is deployed, all Carnivon Starships within 8 Hexes must home in on it at maximum speed like a Seeking Weapon. Once the Carnivon Ships reach the hex containing the Pork Chop Shuttle, it takes 8 impulses for the Pork Chop to be devoured, during which time each Carnivon ship cannot move and cannot raise shields (they are busy eating).
Thanks guys for all the reply! But for those that do have the C6 SSD, the SR has no HN or DB racks. This suggests to me that it just needs the fighters added to be an SRV in wartime.
PS just wondering if the Steve's forgot to add this little addition to the Carnivon's.
It just makes logical sense
Majead, it was a lack of available space in C6. There were and are a number of other ships common to every other empire that were/are missing from C6. Two of those were added in Captain's Log #48 after C6 was released. Scout Carrier and Area Control Ships for both the Carnivons and Paravians.
C6 lacks any advanced technology ships.
will check it out, thx.
I will say this much, a Carnivon SR with a couple shuttles replaced with Jackals (or better yet, a pair of i-type Dingoes) as "Casual Fighters" would be extremely useful for fleet drone defense when serving on the Kzinti front.
For this reason, Majead, it looks to me like this idea has merit.
I do not worry about the Pork chop Shuttle. More important was the Anti Kzinti Heavy shuttle. Filled with CATNIP. If only the Federation had released this information perhaps the four powers war and the general war would never had happened, Yes happy cats
Dealing with the cats has always been a problem of missed opportunities.
The first plan was to let them know about the Paravians, but then there was the whole "sunsnake" thing and that plan went out the window.
Then it was planned to import Singers, but then there was that whole Souldra thing, and that plan had to be dropped too.
So we started looking at the Qixa, but then there was that Sigvirion thing, and getting them of the cloud now that they are back in it ... (what is it with bunnies and brambles anyway?)
But now there are indications the Paravians are back (although now in the Octant where the Singer's used to be found, so we are back to plan one to distract the Kitties.
Dealing with the cats has always been a problem of missed opportunities.
The first plan was to let them know about the Paravians, but then there was the whole "sunsnake" thing and that plan went out the window.
Then it was planned to import Singers, but then there was that whole Souldra thing, and that plan had to be dropped too.
So we started looking at the Qixa, but then there was that Sigvirion thing, and getting them of the cloud now that they are back in it ... (what is it with bunnies and brambles anyway?)
But now there are indications the Paravians are back (although now in the Octant where the Singer's used to be found, so we are back to plan one to distract the Kitties.
So that's the real reason why that Lyran ship showed up in the Federal Republic of Aurora in Y173: to see how its crew would react once they started running into the local Paravians...
So far as modifying the Carnivon SR goes, I wonder if it might be better to wait until PFs become available, and then converting the hull into a gunboat tender. With a relatively small amount of on-map territory (in the "Carnivon Empire" timeline), those Carnivons might be best served keeping their SRs on exploration duty in the off-map zone. At least until the need to hunt Andromedan RTN nodes is faced, at which point a flotilla of PFs would be more effective than a half-squadron of size-1 fighters in dealing with satellite bases.
Gary, sorry. That rationale does not work. The Kzintis were slow to adapt to PF. Yes, they did indeed embrace PFs and even went to the extreme of building a SSCS, but they also built a truck load of bombers and heavy fighter and single space fighters first.
The reason they did so, was simply money. The coalition attacks during the General War cost the Hegemonies budget (depending on which year you look at) between a third to as much as HALF of the annual EP revenue (ignoring for the moment, accounting tricks the F&E rules allow, such as deficit spending.). To be sure, I am not talking about the Automatic deployment of PF’s. Rather the cost of building PFTs and SCS variants require the payment of EPS for each PF based on new build ships.
I know the auto response is that PFs bring more COMPOT, but fighters (generic term that includes heavy fighters and bombers even though bombers can’t be carried on ships or non planetary bases) get replaced each turn for free. PFs, not so much.
Dang.
Lost the last paragraph some how. Messed up the cut and paste.
Should have included a statement that a fighter version of a Kzinti survey cruiser was the next step, and that the Carnavons development logically should mirror that of the Kzinti Hegemony.
The survey cruisers offered for the "lost futures" empires in Module C6 reflect both the overall posture of each empire, as well as the technology available to be used.
The Paravian survey cruiser is noted as being used more aggressively than most, not least in trying to map out new raiding routes into Gorn and ISC space. This reflects the aggressive posture of the "Mapsheet P" Paravians themselves, who are ideologically driven to force the issue against the various "demon" species (namely the Gorns and Pronhoulites, plus any Skolean mercenaries in Gorn service). Also, given how widespread the use of quantum wave torpedoes is among size-1 Paravian fighters, a half-squadron of six Thundercranes would certainly add to the offensive potential of a would-be Paravian SRV.
The Carnivon survey cruiser, by contrast, reflects a more defensively-minded empire (again, if going by the "Carnivon Empire" timeline). Note that even the base SR has no phaser-1s, while its disruptor cannons are limited to range-22; weapons intended more to allow the ship to escape trouble rather than go looking for it. Plus, while the ADDs on size-1 Carnivon fighters are useful against drones or other small targets, they are ill-suited to project force against ships or bases. But then, unlike the "Mapsheet P" Paravians, these Carnivons have long since learned that they are the ones who need to be on the defensive against Kzinti and Lyran aggression - so their use of SRs would in turn be far less aggressive.
So, I'd go back to the argument that the Carnivons might not be in a hurry to take their SRs away from their survey duties until after Y195, when they would be re-tasked to hunt down Andromedan RTN nodes. And since ADDs are of little use against the Andromedans, I'd say that supporting a flotilla of PFs - as well as upgrading the phaser and disruptor cannon armament on the SR base hull - might be a more viable option at that point in time.
In short, while a Paravian SRV would make sense both technologically and doctrinally, I think it might be best to skip a Carnivon equivalent and instead wait for a more up-gunned "SRP" variant.
Or ... or, maybe, just possibly, there is no SRV for both empires in C6 because they had to draw the line somewhere and the SRVs ended up below that line.
I don't get these arguments on whether the SRV should or should not exist. This appears to be a pretty standard design and pretty much everyone gets one. Besides, the design is just "add ready racks and desk crews to six shuttle boxes". It's a "freebie" that requires virtually no justification. It's just something that would be done if the need arose, which it inevitably would.
So, it is reasonable to assume that the Paravians and Carnivons each have such a design, but we just haven't seen it yet.
After reading all comments I agree with Mike the SRV is a standard for all empires so every empire should have the ability to have one! If they choose to build one or not is up to the empire but it should be available to choose.
I was reading over the Carnivon fighter data in Module C6 for another project, when I noticed that, according to (R19.F01), the Carnivons are permitted to replace all of the size-1 superiority fighters on a given carrier with size-1 assault fighters (while also swapping out one set of ready racks for another), or vice versa. Although, the R-section data for the Hyena-3 notes that "pure" squadrons of this fighter type mostly appeared either from planetary defences or on starbases.
Still, this flexibility could prove handy for a would-be Carnivon SRV - not least if one wanted to install a half-squadron of disruptor cannon fighters in order to help go after Andromedan RTN nodes. Or even replace all six size-1 fighters with three Dingo-2 heavy fighters.
Plus one could add a couple of "casual" PFs to the mix. (But would that require sticking with size-1 fighters, due to the rules preventing most ships from taking both size-2 fighters and PFs at the same time?)
That would still leave the problem of the SR base hull's weapon limitations: no phaser-1s and range-22 disruptor cannons. Unless one were to offer a "-B" refit which upgraded the ship appropriately.