What are the odds of a new module this year?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 18, 2020 - 10:35 pm: Edit

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 12:13 am: Edit

If I can find someone to make counters or convince you to buy a product without counters about 100%.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 12:36 am: Edit

I can only speak for myself, but I actually don't care about counters very much at all. C3A is a perfectly fine product in my books.

As long as I have a generic class counter for a ship, I'm happy (the CA counter works just as well for CC, CB, CAD, etc). For very large fleet engagements I can see why you might want to distinguish a DD from a DDG, but I've never really needed to do this.

Out of curiosity, have you ever looked into the viability of a hydraulic press for cutting counters in-house? I have never run a business, nor have I ever operated a press, but I've bought card sleeves from a kickstarted company that were cut with a small hydraulic press and custom cutting die that seemed to work. It's possible that the counters could become print-on-demand if something like this were viable (and I don't know if it is).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 01:06 am: Edit

Yes, we looked into a press. It could cost ten years of sales, require a new building to house it, and would do about 10,000 times as many counters as we need, meaning most of the investment would be wasted.

We are talking to three print on demand companies now but haven't gotten any serious numbers out of any of them yet (due to virus closures).

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 04:44 am: Edit

I think I remember a discussion about pdf-counter sheets to be sold seperately some time ago. I guess about the time when the Andro Threat File was published.

Perhaps that might a good compromise for players who would settle to use their generic counters like Shawn and people who could then print and laminate their own counters at home.
I know I would, but maybe I need somebody to refresh my memory as I don't remember if that idea was ultimately rejected or not.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Soeren Klein

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 07:31 am: Edit

There is an open proposal for a middle years R module. Most of the proposed ships IIRC are variants of existing hulls. meaning the Image on the counter would be similar to, if not identical, to existing counters in the game.

Plus, the premise from the beginning was for a product without counters.

And the best part is, if you get the supplier issue solved for the counters, you could then add counters.

Seems like a safe option.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 08:39 am: Edit

I'd 100% buy a product without counters. I'll take Shawn's post even further. As long as each side's counters are the same race I don't care. I once dropped my box of counters and watched in horror as they spilled across the floor moments before a game. Rather than dig through the pile I used klingon ships and Romulan plasma counters in place of hydrans and fighters. Granted, it was a 1-on-1 dual. Same-race same-class counters work better for fleets. But they still work.

The trick is to write, in large letters, the counter name on each SSD.

Heck, I'd even buy a pdf product without paper.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 12:42 pm: Edit

This is probably NOT a good idea, but I'll throw it out anyway...

What about doing an initial release (a "First Printing") without the counters? I suspect that those of us who will jump at getting a new module as soon as possible are also among those who won't hesitate to order the counter sheets when they come available as well.

SVC SAYS THIS IS A DEAD HORSE.

To me, the counters are a small matter compared with what the new module is going to be. What new ships would a new R-series module have? Is a new module going to be a K2, J3, C7, F3, or what? If it IS one of those modules, what ships or races would the module include?

For my part, I'd LOVE to see an Omega 6 with large bases, the freighters previewed in Captain's Log #20, and tugs expanded beyond the MAesron (Captain's Log #21), Iridani, and Bolosco, but is there enough interest for that?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 12:44 pm: Edit

I'd prefer something alpha quadrant as that's what we always play. I'd like to get my group interested in Omega as well, but just pulling together an Alpha game is impossible with the pandemic.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 02:25 pm: Edit

"but just pulling together an Alpha game is impossible with the pandemic."

The trick is converting your live-in girlfriend to SFB.

We play about 4 games a week.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 05:05 pm: Edit

ALTERNATELY,

Print the counters on "Sticky paper." Put sheet of paper inside the shrink wrap.

Players can stick them to thin cardboard and cut them out themselves.

Saves you all kinds of headaches! Now you can POD the darn counters too!

https://www.amazon.com/Sticker-Paper-Sheets-Inkjet-Printer/dp/B01DJBMLV2

If this happens, I demand (heh) to get another medal on my plaque. Yeah, I know I am in no position to demand bupkis.

I am stunned that presses are so expensive. Do you know (engineer that you are) how many tons of force is needed? Because they make small "benchtop" presses for just a few hundred $.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 08:18 pm: Edit

While a formal publication with counters (akin to Module C6) would be welcome, a product without counters (such as Module C3A) would not be a deal-breaker. Nor, for that matter, would a playtest file (in the same vein as Module E4), which did without a colour cover, in order to provide additional playtest material for one or more new empires (or new ships for pre-existing empires).

Actually, there are a number of playtest or preview ePacks for Federation Commander; a similar "mini" file, say with rules and 12-16 ships for a single new playtest empire at a time, might make for an interesting product type also.

In terms of content, I'd be most keen to see more non-Alpha material: be it introducing one or more of the "Omega's Lost Futures" factions; adding more units to one or more of the pre-existing Omega Octant empires; or perhaps expanding upon the material from Module E2 and Captain's Log #23 so as to more fully present the Triangulum Galaxy as a functional SFB setting. (While I would also welcome a second module for the Lesser Magellanic Cloud, I would say that should wait until after Module X2 is published, so that the post-Unity setup in the LMC can be handled properly.)

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Saturday, June 20, 2020 - 08:22 am: Edit

If the counters could be a little larger, there is a company that does print on demand of sheets of 5/8" counters (also 1"). The company I found is superiorpod.com and shows a price of $4.25 each (10+ sheets). There is 176 counters per sheet.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING WITH THEM SINCE JANUARY AND THEY ARE WAITING FOR THEIR PRINTER TO RESPOND TO MY DESIGN FOR A SHEET OF 220 HALF INCH COUNTERS. THE LARGER 5/8 INCH WONT FIT THE MAPS,

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Saturday, June 20, 2020 - 01:39 pm: Edit

If we're wishlisting modules, yeah, my most wanted picks would be:


More minor/conjectural Alpha empires like F3, or C7
C5A, C5R (or whatever Magellanic part 2 would be called)
Q: Sublight Battles
Something in M81
Y4
Triangulum proper release
Omega 6

But in all honesty, I'll be buying anything so long as it's SFB.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Saturday, June 20, 2020 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Oh, or that S3: Monsters proposal (although I think Scenario modules are rejected due to sales?).

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 08:54 am: Edit

Why couldn’t a R module focus on Monsters? There are more than half a dozen proposals on the BBS already. Let’s say there are 6 monsters selected, that is only six counters.

TO FOCUS ON MONSTERS WOULD NEED DOZENS OF THEM, OBVIOUSLY RIDICULOUS.

Or, as an additional option, have the R Module expand on planetary based things (planetary defense Units, planetary defense battalions, civilian bases etc.). None of those require counters, it’s all assigned to a planetary hex side, and players record damage on the SSD forms for all units involved in combat.

If you did want to include non counter things in a R module, there is still the matter of how to portray high population worlds in SFBs. At present, it’s mostly abstract. Named worlds have their statistics published in various captains logs, and SFB’s has provisions for inflicting “general damage” on such worlds, but there are no counters involved beyond one representing the planet.

Not sure how much “need” there is for expanding the rules set to handle high population worlds, but you sure do not need any counters for it.

Or, as long as we are talking about this, there is also the idea of representing ship building facilities on planets. Star Trek canonical treatment has been to move production off earth to the planitia yards on mars. Perhaps the thin atmosphere makes it easier to move components into or out of atmosphere easier. In any event, a set of rules on how to target an empires ship yards during raids or (oh, the horror!)an invasion would be interesting.

Plus, since we are talking about ship yards as targets in combat... if the various slipways were planet based FRD shaped things, they would each require a ships full alpha strike. At a time when the planets defenses are shooting back at the attacking fleets ships.

Interesting choice for the attackers. Hit your main target, which is shielded but mostly unarmed, or concentrate on the defenses.

Plus, (bringing an F&E aspect to the discussion) if the slipways are FRD shaped, does that mean each could have a pair of hanger modules filled with admin shuttles? The Fralli may not be unique in fielding mass admin shuttles.

Any enemy fleet trying to attack a major empires shipyard s would have to expend thousands of damage points n the slipways alone. (Do the math, FRDs are huge damage sponges. If each one has a pair of hanger modules attached, and you need one slipway for every ship in the empires f&e production schedule, the damage required is massive.)

Lots of things could be In a counter less module.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 11:00 am: Edit

I think that there are more than enough ground bases and other bases to serve in the game so far.

SO DOES SVC

There are many monsters spread into various publications, perhaps a product that consolidates the various rules and articles might be interesting.

WOULD NOT SELL! BEING OLD RECYCLED STUFF

I think, R1 not withstanding, that i'd prefer a new R module to have _ships_. It's been a long time since a non-playtest product came out that focused on actual existing ships and I'd like to see another as would perhaps many other people.

(What I personally want is X2 but things don't look good for that atm, so I'd settle for a new R module of alpha octant centered non early year warships).

I SPENT MONTHS SIFTING PROPOSALS TO FIND ENOUGH SHIPS. I FOUND THEM.—SVC

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Yeah, I think you are doomed to be disappointed.

But you raise another issue.

If a R module without counters is published with (at a guess) 47 non early years starships, that represents 47 counters that will need to get issued some time in the future.

Cost alone will prevent it being included in another R module as a freebie. (Counters represent a significant expense in the production process.)

If it is made available as a replacement part, customers will demand that it should have been part of the module originally. Others (who use miniatures only) will complain that they shouldn’t have to pay for counters they neither want nor need.

To call it a can of Toxic worms is an understatement indeed.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Personally, I agree with Richard Eitzen on this one. I want ships (preferably Alpha octant and non-EY) rather than monsters. And if I have an SSD, rules, and description; the counters are "nice to have, but not a necessity".

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 01:51 pm: Edit

I've made do without a special counter for every special ship, I'm sure most of us have in the past.

It could be a problem later, but the more serious problem imo is the lack of new ships to play with now, in one purchasable product. What was the last product for SFB focused on REAL general war or post general war ships? I can't even remember anymore.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 01:53 pm: Edit

With that said, a product with middle years stuff (perhaps mixed in with later era stuff) would be acceptable if focused on the alpha octant.

SVC FINDS THIS BORING.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Module R12 was published in 208 and Module X1R was published in 2012. Those correspond to Captain's logs 36 and 37 for 2008 and Captain's log 45 for 2012. There are some ships that are variants of published ships that could go into a R Module with no Counters. If we, as players, go through the Captain's log along with the published MSSBs we should be able to put together a list of ships.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 04:05 pm: Edit

SPP,

If you would like us (players) to compile this list would you open a topic for it. We would go in empire order and then general units at the end.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 07:27 pm: Edit

I would like to see a module that collects all the SPP CL articles on using monsters, along with new ones, and maybe odd ball terrain items like comets in one module. I would also like to see Omega and LMC have all their empires published, Triangulum as well.

While we are at it, I'll take a pony too.

I will be happy with whatever ADB prints. New real ships would be nice.

P.S. Nicosians are real ships.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Nicosians are playtest.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 10:12 pm: Edit

True, but publishing them would be a real Alpha Quadrant Empire.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Great! More targets to shoot at.

Cat who tears enemies Into Itsy Bitsy pieces. (Universal translator had a problem trying to render an accurate translation of the actual meaning of the Kzinti phrase.)

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 10:44 pm: Edit

I don't think the Nicosians would fill a whole module. They'd fit well in a module focusing on monsters though, essentially being one.

COULD BE COMBINED WITH BORAK AND PARAVIANS BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO ADD ENOUGH NEW STUFF TO MAKE IT MARKETABLE.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Just to throw something out there...

We've seen a preview of Tholian/Seltorian Home Galaxy Pirates. How much more is there of them? What are the freighters they prey on? Are they like Alpha freighters? Omega freighters? Modified versions of the ships that eventually became the Hive and Nest Ships?

We also know the Seltorians were called the "Most Trusted Subject." What about "Less Trusted Subjects?" Could there be some peoples out there struggling against each other to curry favor with the Tholians? Could some of them be trying to curry favor with their new Seltorian overlords?

Could there be some trying to undermine their new Seltorian overlords in an effort to replace them as masters of the galaxy?

It seems to me that addressing these questions may result in a playtest module (and a heckuva long time before a formal "C" series module), but while COVID has us twiddling our thumbs, is there any interest in this idea?

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:14 am: Edit

Personally, I would love a module set in M81 (Tholian Home Galaxy).

GOOD IDEA BUT IT WOULD TAKE A YEAR.—SVC

I think it has the potential to be very interesting. Imagine a galaxy whose defining characteristics are that the nations in that galaxy grew up under the thumb of the Tholians and their web technology.

I would expect that the technology and tactics employed would be such that they would be defined by their ability to counteract or circumvent the web. The Seltorians, after all, managed to win their coup only after the prospect of converting their shield crackers into web breakers became a reality. What about a people who developed the ability to jump past the web (like Nicozian skip-warp), or fire through it, or who could re-attune the web so that the Tholians could not reinforce their webs, or fire through their webs, or move through them?

Politically, it could be a very interesting situation with intense multi-polarity.

The Tholians were an empire in the old sense. In the Assyrian sense. They were an empire that didn't blush about their atrocities. They elevated subjects up to most favoured slaves, and then eradicated them when they were disloyal, or maybe even just obsolete. The order of the old galaxy was maintained by the stone fist of Tholia. The institutions that governed the conquered were fear and servitude. Or at least, that's my reading.

Given the nature of Tholian rule, indirect due to the incompatible atmospheric, temperature, and pressure requirements that limited the Tholians to their homeworld and their great spheres, how did the Tholians exploit the resources in their galaxy? I can see two answers, robots (boring), and seeding the galaxy with handpicked subject species. A species that occupies M-class terrestrial worlds? Why have two, when you can merely select the most loyal of all the M-planet-species, eradicate the rest, and then seed them across the galaxy to mine your salt? Same for ice giants, and every other imaginable world type.

The Seltorians, once ascendant, we know little about. Without a guiding ethic or theory of politics, how could they do anything else other than merely replace the Tholian Will with the Seltorian Will? Maybe they see themselves as humanitarians. Maybe they see themselves as abolitionists breaking the final chain on the ankles of their galaxy's denizens. Maybe they believe they will be different.

But can they be?

A system maintained with violence can rarely persist without it. Surely the subject peoples will have opinions and parallel power structures to challenge the Seltorians. How will the Seltorians respond?

If they remain high-minded, will they prohibit their subjects from building their own starships? If so, they would need to greatly centralise the empire, and become responsible for keeping the spacelanes clear of pirates, smugglers, and wandering monsters.

More plausibly they will attempt to govern through some form of semi-independent satraps. More plausibly they will remain the strongest force in a very divided galaxy with overlapping borders and multiethnic states. They could assume a role similar to the Hapsburg emperors of the Holy Roman Empire. A thousand states beneath them, and a peace that resembles civil war.

Maybe they rule like this for a while until they decide the Tholians were doing it the right way all along.

M81 could be a sandbox where technology sloshing is the norm due to the multiplicity of combatants, with various tactical equilibria forming from the borrowing of tech from neighbours and sub-states. We could have leagues of nations technology-sharing in this war, only for the next war to be fought between a different coalition. Nation A and nation B could fight nation C and nation D, so that their tech would be AB (nation A) and BA (nation B) vs CD (nation C) and DC (nation D), and then for the next war to be nation A and nation C vs nation B and nation E, so that their tech would be ABC (nation A) and CDA (nation C) vs BAE (nation B) and EB (nation E). Rinse and repeat.

Technology was stagnant when the Tholians ruled due to the long peace. Such a peace would be over, either forever, or until a new long peace was found.

Or M81 could look nothing like I've described. The Tholians, their empire, diaspora, and legacy are some of the richest and most interesting aspects of the SFU, and the fact that there is an entire galaxy waiting to be filled based on their fiction, before, during, and after the fall, is exciting. I hope we get to see it.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:20 am: Edit

I'm thinking that would not be a suitable next product unless SVC had time to do everything everyone wants, which I suspect he does not.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:52 am: Edit

With total respect, I'd pay for module that did 1% of M81 so long as it had enough content in absolute terms.

Y1 is not an incomplete module, despite it not containing the ISC. Y1 is a piece of the galaxy and a respectable expansion in its own right.

Same with any setting really. If X2 (or M81, or Triangulum, or whatever) is too big for one module, maybe it needs to be three? Or five?

By Jay Gustafson (Jay13) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 12:38 pm: Edit

How about the fighters that never were

TOO MANY PLAYERS BLOW A FIT ABOUT CONJECTURAL AND NEVER BUILT UNITS.—SVC

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 12:56 pm: Edit

There's something almost of a tautology going on with your suggestion Jay.

I struggle to see how enough content could be scraped together to make J3: The Fighters That Never Were. My gut says it can't be done, which is probably why you chose it as an example. So, a shoddy, incomplete, half-module wouldn't be worth buying (although I'd probably buy it anyway).

But if there were enough content in absolute terms for a module J3, then it would be a module worth buying.

Which is to say that any module with enough stuff would be a module worth buying, and a module not worth buying would have less than enough stuff (or too much padding around the real content).

So, J3 would be by definition good, unless it was bad?

Out of curiousity, do you believe there's a bad module?

D3 would be my pick, but only because it has virtually no content. Two scenarios and a bunch of SSDs for ship components we already had the rules to (and really already had the SSDs for as well if you're inclined to cross off enough boxes).

So, if J3 were D3 it would suck (in my opinion), but if J3 were R9, I'd very happily buy it, and fly a Gorn strike carrier full of Tyrannosaurus Spitfires against a Romulan base defended by Gladiator-Z's and their scatter-plasma.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Tholian Home Galaxy that would be fun. No seeking weapons. No need for WWs. Limited scout ships.

Seeking weapons the web makes them very, very hard to use. With out seekers no need for a WWs. I do think that scout ships would be used. Direct fire weapons being the normal weapons used.

No one could have ships enough to threaten the Will. Or the Tech to overcome it. If they did they would have done what the Seltorians did.

I can see other races. Each with there weak armed ships. Trading with the other races. All being taxed by the Tholian Will. Following Tholian Law. Having Trade wars with each other. When those little wars start effecting the Taxes to the Will. Then in come the Seltorians or Tholian war ships.

A bunch of over armed freighters has been done with the Wyn. These races however can/could have police ships. A chance maybe to dig out a bunch of old races?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 03:57 pm: Edit

I like those ideas for the Tholian/Seltorian Home Galaxy, Shawn, but have imagined a VERY different angle.

As far as people who have technologies that might allow them to bypass Web, I suspect that the Tholians, being as ruthless as they are, would probably exterminate anyone who develops those technologies.

Obviously, the Seltorians were successful, but even that implies (to me) that the Tholians seldom, if ever, had subject people develop technologies that could present a threat to the Will, and weren't suspicious of its development.

But that's just me.

As I picture M81, it's a place where peoples have limited resources in terms of ship types and numbers; NOBODY has forces that might threaten the Tholians or their Seltorian "Most Trusted Subjects." Indeed, the highest aspiration most peoples would have would be to "Replace" the Seltorians in the "Most Trusted Subject" position to the Tholian overlords.

(A hubris that the Tholians would recognize as a Machiavellian threat to their dominion, which is why they kept the "Hivebound" Seltorians as their "Most Trusted Subject." )

The next question you brought up was how the Seltorians would administer the galaxy. I suspect that they would, if anything, be even MORE oppressive; as is stated in Canon, they're not an imaginative people, so trying new things isn't in their make-up. The only real change, as I see it, is their genocidal rage. For that reason, I suspect that, in addition to the Hive and Nest ships going out to exterminate any Tholian survivors, they might turn a genocidal rage against anyone whom they perceive as Tholian sympathizers.

But again, that's just me.

I've imagined a galaxy of pent-up tensions; anyone "Turning Violent" would face reprisals from the Tholians (or their Seltorian MTSes), so the new freedom, thanks to a lack of Webs separating hostile peoples, would lead to old feuds exploding.

Would any of these peoples with pent-up tensions claim that the targets of their rages had sided with the Tholians? Would the Seltorians go on rampage agains these people, or would they keep focussed on their desire to exterminate Tholians?

How many peoples out there had taken advantage of the Tholian Will to protect them, and that loss of protection leaves them trying to hide (or, at most, engaging in asymmetric warfare, like the Jumokians did agains the Eneen in the Magellanic Cloud)?

Greg, you brought up a couple elements that have made the Tholian Home Galaxy fun for me as well. Indeed the main reason why I wanted to bring the place up for these options was the simpler nature of the place; imagine introducing new players into a game that solely uses direct fire weapons, no fancy EW rules, no mine warfare, none of this, none of that, none of etcetera. Just. Quick. And. Clean...

It's with these thoughts in mind that I've broken out the crayons and graph paper.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Fighters that never were sounds like a Captain's Log article.

M81 galaxy sounds fun but then nothing sells 50% of what an Alpha Main Era product sells, but are we out of Alpha Main Era products worth doing?

I was schedule to start pounding hard on the die cutting problem today but due to the fall I did not get to work which is where those files are. So, maybe tomorrow. I cannot believe that simply falling from a seated position tore up my legs so bad that I cannot even walk.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 05:09 pm: Edit

For what it's worth, the Pirates of M81 Galaxy article in Captain's Log #41 speaks of various conflicts the Tholians fought during their rise to galactic dominance, to include the "Great Martial War". As it happens, one of the three main enemies the Tholians fought in that war were the Nebuline, who survived by retreating to various holdings inside active nebulae - terrain in which the Tholian web, so dangerous when left unchecked in open space, loses its lustre somewhat. (Also, the Nebuline seem to have some sort of unique systems which make them more dangerous when fighting in a nebula, akin to how the Qixa fleet is uniquely tailored to fight in the Qixavalor Cloud.)

It's noted that the OGR and OGD are "export models" of raiders used by the holdout Nebuline colonies themselves, which in turn were derived from "wingless" hulls used as "line" ships in the Nebuline star navy. As with WYN-Orion variants of Orion Pirate hulls, the export versions of these raiders have "key Nebuline technology" removed, so are no better at fighting inside a nebula than other (non-Nebuline) empires.

So the door could be ajar for the Nebuline to have their own raider SSDs, a set of "line" ships without wings, and rules explaining why they are so effective when fighting on their home turf. Perhaps both the pirates and the Nebuline could get different sizes of raider ships also - say, a frigate-sized "OGF" and/or a heavy cruiser-sized "OGC".

For that matter, one could also find out about the other rival empires that were involved in the Great Martial War, and/or in other such campaigns fought during the Tholians' march to galactic overlordship.

But in the longer run, I wonder if working M81 up as an SFB setting might be more viable as and when the long-awaited Tholian sourcebook were to be finalized for Prime Directive.

By Jay Gustafson (Jay13) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Was it ever said what type of race manned the galaxy pirate raiders

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 05:23 pm: Edit

The High Pirate Bands which operate the "export" OGRs and OGDs are crewed by escapees from worlds held under Tholian domination. There isn't much in the way of data regarding what those various species look like - or, for that matter, what manner of beings their Nebuline benefactors happen to be - save that most, if not all, of them seem to be carbon-based life forms.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 05:46 pm: Edit

I don't think inventing 30 new species that four players would be interested in is a good use for my time. If Gary C wants to do it, then swell, but he better do it to a high enough standard it doesn't require Jean to spend weeks checking and fixing it.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 07:39 pm: Edit

If we are discussing the next module, I would love a complete monsters and terrain thing.

So you get all the monsters PLUS some odd ball kinds of terrain.

I've already sketched out rules for vortexes, "prairie dog space," and "Slip and slide space."

Maybe make this a "submitter issue" with all kinds of wacky stuff from the little people? I'm in.

Actually this sounds like something that could be fun. Dozens of little things from dozens of people.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 08:46 pm: Edit

I'm not sure as to what capacity I can help with the design of anything, but Gary, if you need a pre-Jean editor I can take a look at your stuff.

If you'd want that, of course.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:17 pm: Edit

It was mentioned earlier that some one wanted ships.

I can see why Star Fleet Battles Players would want them, and in hindsight, publishing a module (R, C, F or whatever) without ships is a little like “bait and switch”. After decades of publishing rules modules With ships, suddenly changing the structure of an established product (regardless of the reason, no matter how well justified) will upset some people.

The only options mentioned up to now, are a middle years R module, a Stellar Shadows Journal kind of thing (good place for a “fighters that never were” article), or a refit module (I think it was X1R being the only example I can recall offhand.)

One last option, might be a Sargasso Sector module (either a C module or a F module). I think of it as a “Sand box” option for star fleet battles. As I understand it (and I hope some one would correct me in I am in error) the SS is flooded with some sort of radiation that doesn’t effect certain star systems. Means individual empires populations (examples paravaians, Carnivons, Romulans, Federation, Klingons etc.) can live in, populate, colonize, individual star systems but can not establish deep space bases(base stations, battle stations, star bases etc.)

I do not know what SVC has in mind for the Sargasso Sector, but if it can be done without counters, perhaps it should be under consideration.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Or a GW/post GW R module.

The idea behind Sargasso if I recall was a lot of little empires that are usually isolated from one another because of horrible space storms that clear up once in a while and they go at it.

While interesting, I don't think adding another 123456 empires is really what is needed at this time.

YMMV.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 01:10 am: Edit

Richard,

I like the idea of GW/post GW R module. Sargasso sector is the storm sector. The Sigma sector is on the other side of Omega. Those are after X2 and the Xorks. The majority of interest is in the Alpha sector. Post war is a not as developed as the GW both history and ships.

Ships that the empire were going to build but were put on hold because the war ended. Example FED SCS. The design found new life during the Andro war. I am sure there are other ships.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 07:30 am: Edit

A Post GW module could be structured around the RTN hunter idea.

That would have a CVA/SCS conversion refit for most of the alpha empires. Since it’s a refit, that would not necessarily require a counter since all of the various empires (except the Andromedans obviously) already have those ships in service during the General War, (or were building The ships.)

DEAD HORSE—SVC

Once the counter situation gets settled, a counter sheet could be produced and added to the product.

ADB might consider including a coupon in the module. Basically it could be redeemed for a counter sheet, when available. (Should probably have the usual conditions and restrictions, “no substitutions, expires after a set period(one year?), no cash value etc.)

That way ADB could price the product from the start as if the counter sheet were included. No need to price two separate modules (one with No counters, the second With counters.) No need to stock two virtually identical modules (one without counters, available immediately).