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By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 10:15 am: Edit

The idea of doing counters "later" is a non-starter. We do them with the product or we never do them.

I need to get back to work (which won't be today and tomorrow isn't looking much better; I still cannot walk and working from a wheelchair is less than optimal). Then I need to solve the countersheet thing.

By Jay Gustafson (Jay13) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 11:51 am: Edit

I kind of like the idea of a really twisted parallel universe where the tholians are the ,asters of that universe

SVC DOUBTS IF ANY ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE WOULD SELL ENOUGH COPIES TO BE WORTH THE WORK.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 02:15 pm: Edit

There are all sorts of twisted parallel universes that I like as well. The problem is how muddled and lost a "Prime Universe" can get if our friends at ADB, Inc. start doing parallel universes.

As such, I suspect they'll do little more than things like the brief views in scenarios such as "Return of the Darwin."

However, if you're interested in sharing ideas, strictly off the records, then we have a lot in common and I'd be happy to share some of them through emails.

(It might not be the same as BS-ing back and forth over Cold Ones, but the concept is similar. )

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Personally, I'd rather see X2 and the Xorks fleshed out in a few modules. That would complete the SFU history from Y to post Andro-war.

SVC WANTS THIS AS WELL. AFTER CL54 WE WILL SEE.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Ditto.

By Soeren Klein (Ogdrklein) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 04:57 pm: Edit

SVC,

I know the it was discussed some time ago, when C3A was published without a counter sheet, but was the idea of a pdf countersheet sold separately ever finally rejected?

As Rulebooks and SSDs are already sold as separate pdf-files might a pdf countersheet be a valid supplement?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Sören Klein

SVC WANTS TO FINISH EXPLORING THE IDEA OF PRINT ON DEMAND SHORT RUN COUNTERS FIRST BUT SOREN’S REQUEST SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE LONG AGO.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Ted,

If SVC doesn't have enough time over the next several (six?) months to do X2 and Xorks for what ever set of reasons what would like to see in a R module?

IN THE PROPOSAL BOARD THERE IS A START ON THIS

All: I think the fast battleships, while conjectural, would be cool to have published in a R module.

SVC SAYS YES BUT WHAT ELSE

By way of mention in this topic are the heavy RTN hunters (Feds thru Kzintis so far). Understand these are not approved and may never be.

SVC NEEDS TO SPEAK WITH PETRICK HERE.

I would also like to see other empires versions of the pacification base.

SVC SAYS NO

One use is Operation Unity. This might just be a heavy version of the Operations base with three pods instead of two.

SVC SAYS SURE, GO MAKE A PROPOSAL TOPIC

New weapons: In one of the recent captain's log was mention of a gravity (gravimeteric) mine. More than 10 years ago I worked with SPP on an anti-ship cannon that fighters could carry.

SVC: NAH

A new monster.

SEVERAL IN DEVELOPMENT

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Since we now have a dedicated topic for this discussion, I would like to try and assemble my thoughts in a somewhat more coherent manner. (Whether I succeed in this or not is another matter...)
If there is a viable way to include counters and if the process of developing the rules and SSDs required is not too onerous, my first preference for a "full" formally published Star Fleet Battles product would be Module X2. It would be welcome as an Alpha Octant product in and of itself, as well as a stepping stone towards further development in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud and in the Omega Octant. (And, of course, in the Xorkaelian Tyranny.)

SVC WANTS THIS TOO

If, however, there is no viable way to include counters this time around, but there is a chance to work on a formal publication, I would then ask for a new Omega module. With so many Omega Octant units still to be printed, there are plenty of options in terms of what to put into such a module; but getting at least some of the current empires closer to a proper level of campaign compatibility would be welcome. I would not consider the lack of counters to be a deal-breaker.

SVC IS UNSURE OF THE SALES POTENTIAL

Alternatively, if there was scope for a "large" playtest file (as in, something on the sale of Module E3 or Module E4), I'd prefer a fresh take on the Triangulum Galaxy - as in, something which brought the four empires covered in Module E2 and Captain's Log #23 up to a measure of campaign compatibility. M33 has a lot of potential as a setting, but it might do with an update to the current printed material. (I believe that Francois Angers had been working on such updates in the years since E2 was first printed, but I can't speak to its current disposition.)

SVC HAS ZERO INTEREST

And finally, if there is room for a "small" playtest product (akin to the playtest and/or preview ePacks on offer over in Federation Commander), perhaps a single new empire at a time - be it one of "Omega's Lost Futures", the Nebuline for M81, or some other as-yet-unexplored venue - with rules and 12-16 SSDs could be enough to get playtesting for each empire off the ground, without the workload involved in moving such empires directly into a more fully-fledged product.

SVC SAYS THIS IS POSSIBLE

That said, I'm not sure how much of the above need necessarily be mutually exclusive. In the "old days" between each round of countersheet printings, there'd be room in between for smaller, counter-less products to be worked up. So I wonder if the "ePack" idea might be one that could still work as an adjunct to the larger projects.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 06:16 pm: Edit

@Joe: Honestly, specialty ships (e.g. fast BBs) that never really got used don't interest me. My group of regular SFB players only like playing with S8 compatible ships in the Alpha Quadrant. SVC's a creative guy, so maybe he'll have an R module I will want to buy. That being said, if something like fast BBs come out I'll buy it just to support ADB, but it's almost certainly going to sit on my shelf and gather dust (just like C3A is doing right now).

I don't see how SVC will be able to do X2 and Xorks in just 6 months, but honestly I'd rather wait a year and buy what I'm looking for.

This is all *my personal opinion*. SVC will do whatever works for him and ADB. And I will probably buy it just because I'm almost at the level of "super-fan".

However, what I *want* in SFB is X2 and Xorks. On the F&E side (which I know is off topic) I want the WARBOOK. However, that's another massive project which also depends on updating other F&E expansions.

So, I guess I will keep waiting.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Ted,

Thanks. While prefer X2 and Xorks also I don't think we are talking about those two modules-could be wrong. I also don't know where F&E counter sheets and F&E products fit in to the production schedule.

Gary SVC said he would not do a R module (or likely any module) without counters.

SVC SAID WHAT?

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 08:15 pm: Edit

S8.0 hints at ships with 48 fighters. There are some truly frightening SSDs buried in that paragraph. (I based an entire campaign around that one line once.)

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 09:53 pm: Edit

Steve Z., check out Star Fleet Times #9. Federation CVN. VERY evil; 72 fighters.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 10:08 pm: Edit

Steve Zamboni, can you expand on that for us?

I'd love to hear about the campaign.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 10:48 pm: Edit

We have done products without counters before and may do them again. I don’t remember saying I would not do products without counters but under various situations I have said various things at various times.

We can certainly sell PDF counters for products without counters, but wait a month while I complete a conversation with someone who might be able to do runs of 100 sheets or even 50.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 10:53 pm: Edit

S8 reference

"(S8.326) Up to 48 fighters (as above) could be used IF they are all based on a single ship AND that ship is in the battle fleet."

The Hydran Iron Chancellor Heavy Carrier (IC) has 40 fighters. The IC has no heavy weapons.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 11:32 pm: Edit

SVC,

I misunderstood "The idea of doing counters "later" is a non-starter. We do them with the product or we never do them." I took it mean you would not do an R module without counters. My apologizes.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 05:40 am: Edit

What would I buy might be the best way to go into this list.

More of the Master Starship books. I love the Romulan book I bought well worth it. Having all the R sections in one spot is a godsend. That of course made me buy a couple of captains logs to get SSDs I did not have. As well as buying a few more odds and ends.

I do not have half of what I should have are want. budget is in there. Told the family I wanted Captains Logs for X-MASS. (did tell them the ones I do have) The wife shakes her head at the stacks of SFB stuff I have. She does keep getting me my SFBOL subscription every year for my B-day. She must love me

I would buy stuff dealing with the Tholian Home Galaxy. I am interested in that stuff.

Do not care at all about X-ships. I do enjoy the tactical difficulties playing Old Sub light Roms vs early Warp powered ships. So stuff in those years interest me.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 08:43 am: Edit

Has any consideration ever been given to a module along the lines of R9 or C6 for the ships of the national fleets of the Federation?

What I mean is fleshing out the national fleets of the Vulcans, Terrans, Rigellians, etc into full empires. You could call it conjectural, or campaign conjectural, or alternate universe, but they obviously would not be canon.

It would be neat to have the potential to represent a more decentralised Federation, one where a unified starfleet never formed.

The same thing could be done for the ISC, or even the Klingons and Kzintis.

SVC HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN THE SALES POTENTIAL OF SUCH A PROJECT. WHILE THERE IS NO OBJECTION TO DOING IT, THERE ARE MUCH BETTER FISH TO FRY.

By Jay Gustafson (Jay13) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 09:42 am: Edit

Andromadan master starship book

ADB HAS SAID ALL OF THE MSSBs WILL BE DONE.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 10:35 am: Edit

Would it be an option to set up a different thread in which to discuss potential "Star Fleet Battles ePack" files, or should that discussion be in this thread also?

SVC SAYS WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER TOPIC. AS AN EPACK AND A REAL PRODUCT TAKE THE SAME WORK, WE MIGHT AS WELL FOCUS ON ONES THAT WOULD MAKE REAL PRODUCTS. EPACKS DON'T MAKE IT EASIER TO DO.

I recall when Module C6 was chosen as the last "full" SFB module, there was a discussion thread much like this one, along with an "August 2012 memo" in which a number of potential candidates were covered.

It was noted at the time that there were difficulties in terms of finding enough "real" ships for the Main Era Alpha Octant to make another "R-module" (or "J-module" or "K-module") viable; and that questions remained as to how may "real" Early Years or first-generation X-ships remained to make either Module Y4 or Module X1B work either.

Since then, there have been a number of new units offered in various issues of Captain's Log, some of which being historical in nature - even if some of those, such as the Federation OSR, are one-offs. But are there enough of them to change the equation this time around?


Actually, I wonder if the "ePack" option as seen in Federation Commander might be better suited here, also. For example, I'd argue that there are a number of "wartime" ISC mission variants which would have cause to historically exist during the Andromedan War (and also over in one or more of the "Paravian timelines" from Module C6). Perhaps an "SFB ISC ePack" could offer such ships in a more compact format, akin to the single-empire Ship Card ePacks over in FC. But, again, if it was better to move the "ePack" discussion to another thread, well and good.

By Steven Zamboni (Szamboni) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 02:31 pm: Edit

Shawn:

The campaign was centered on a Souldra invasion from the void sector behind ISC space, so mostly plasma empires or western Omega empires. The larger the ship, the further it could push into the void to launch fighters, so deep strikes against Souldra bases put an emphasis on CVA and BBV hulls with progression towards the big (S8.326) carriers.

The Souldra had similar issues leaving the Void, so they grew some 48-shard monsters to keep players awake at night. (There were a few house rules to help manage the giant piles of counters that came with some of those furballs.)

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 04:20 pm: Edit

EY/ to MY Vudar?

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Ugh, no.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 05:51 pm: Edit

I'd be happy with EY Vudar, but I might have different tastes than everyone else here.

I don't know of any polls, but my impression just from sensing the temperature in the room is that people really want X2 as soon as they can get it.