That is the sense I get. I looked at R11 there were five new classes of ships. I have quickly looked at what is in the Captain's logs. the light battleship (BBL) and the CVH were the only classes I could see. Rest were carrier variants or non-alpha ships. In fact the BBL, CVH, and other unique ships would fit better into J3. I would rather have X2.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 07:05 pm: Edit

I am meh on X2. I'd like to see mature X1 fleets with perhaps some orbat information.

I was proposing for a new "mixed bag" module of stuff. So monsters, Vudar, odd terrains, grab bag of PFTs and workboat stuff, etc.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 07:53 pm: Edit

What is 'orbat'?

I do not like Mr. Grafton's idea of a mixed bag of stuff.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Order of battle.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Oh, the abbreviation for that is OoB. Lol.

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 10:33 pm: Edit

I'll take anything at this point. Don't need counters personally, the game has thousands.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 10:37 pm: Edit

If it results in a module that has a publication/release date this summer, I would take it if it was purple and included the Barney song played every time it was picked up, like those annoying hallmark cards.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Thursday, June 25, 2020 - 10:38 pm: Edit

I won't buy that, nor will I buy a weird hodgepodge of a module.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 12:18 am: Edit

Do mature X1 fleets make sense conceptually?

I thought the whole point of X-tech was that it came with limitations on how it could be employed, and so you don't have X-dreadnoughts and whatnot.

What would be missing from X1 and X1R to bring us up to the point of having mature X1 fleets? A second generation of X1 hulls?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 12:19 am: Edit

Whatever new module comes out, I will buy.

Sight unseen.

Why?

ADB, Inc. has ALWAYS done quality product. You have NEVER put something out "Just" to "Put Something Out."

('Nuff said.)

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 11:07 am: Edit

I'd like to see X2 but it will take a vast amount of work (and playtesting) so that's not going to happen for a long time.

Omega, Magellanic, Triangulum, Sargasso and all that lot won't be big sellers. EY and sublight probably won't be either.

So that leaves the classic Alpha MY/GW/X1 era. But there's not enough in any single department to fill J3, K2 or any similar class-based module like R5 or R7. All that leaves is an R module collecting all the odds and sods that have appeared in the last decade, probably with a few orphaned fighters and PFs. Which is at least easy to do, though I'm still not sure if there's enough meat on the bone.

The other thing I'd like to see is Module V, but all that went quiet years ago and even the extensive BBS discussions on it have disappeared.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 11:28 am: Edit

V is the operations-level module, right?

What was the gist of it?

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 11:42 am: Edit

Never defined, mostly a few fan suggestions.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Even though Module X2 would require the most lead-in time in terms of development, it would be an investment that would pay off in the longer term.

As it would be no more likely to cover every unit needed for that era any more than Module X1 or Module Y1 did for their respective eras, that would leave the door ajar for would-be "Module X2R" or even "Module X2B" modules later on.

As X2 would mark the first new Alpha Octant time period to be created in the era of ADB on Shapeways, it would (I hope) allow for a new vision for what X2-ships should actually look like to take shape.

Plus, as the first new Alpha era to be created for SFB since Federation Commander, Star Fleet Starmada, and A Call to Arms: Star Fleet were each brought into being, a viable set of X2-rules here would hopefully make it possible to consider later conversions to those game systems - not least to make further use of any would-be Shapeways X2-ship miniatures, were those to be a factor by then.

And while I'd expect the "main" X2-era modules to focus on those Alpha empires which historically existed as of Y205, a functioning set of X2-rules could perhaps allow for side products (or even ePacks) offering X2-era support for, say, the "lost empires" of Module C6.

And that's before one considers the Xorkaelians, or other non-Alpha products (such as a would-be "Module C5R") which the existence of X2 would greatly facilitate.

So, I wouldn't mind waiting through a lengthy development process for Module X2 itself, as any work put in there would help set up new modules and new avenues of exploration in its wake.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Given the problems with the infamous “Supplement” that was supposed to integrate X Technology to SFB’s, It would be my guess that the pressures on ADB to “GET IT RIGHT” is enormous.

It is my hope that ADB will choose a module that can be completed this summer. X2 while popular, will take months of work.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 12:50 pm: Edit

The "mixed bag" modules were R11 and R12. New space terrain are rules not products. Work boats and survey PFs were were published in those modules as was the last empire wide class, medium war cruiser (CM). SVC posted they have three monster under development.

MORE THAN THREE.

The period through Operation Unity has been defined and the necessary regular-tech and X-tech published. My view is that leaves X2 as really the only module worth doing. X2 moves the timeline to where the Omega and Sigma sector can be reached. Also in year or two maybe Greater Magellanic Cloud. Further LMC material could be developed.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 01:43 pm: Edit

Could take a year or more to prepare a X2 module.

Supplement 2 fiasco Showed vividly the risks of not playtesting first. Lot of ideas were hailed as revolutionary and innovative. Also horribly broken. (Let us not forget the dreaded ‘close and hose’ tactic....)

I agree that you have a good case for X2 being next.

It’s also the biggest challenge.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 02:58 pm: Edit

What's the Supplement 2 fiasco?

I've been able to glean from context that a previous version of the game had crappy X2 rules, and that avoiding that outcome is on everybody's minds.

But what was wrong with them?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Supplement 2 is a now disavowed supplement. It has been so thoroughly repudiated that it's now hard to find, and it is NOT offered by ADB now. I did own it, because I bought it when it came out, but I don't remember exactly what year that was. Late 80s or early 90's.

There was a lot wrong with X2. For one, X2 ships did not play nicely with older generation ships of supposedly equal BPV. A single Federation X2-CC could probably destroy an entire Klingon general war era fleet, given it's massive speed advantage (speed 40 IIRC) and range 40 photon torpedoes firing every turn. One could likely say the same of other X2 ships. Indeed, even X1 ships would have a hard time competing against the original X2 ships.

For another, there was such a power advantage intrinsic to the ships that realistically the game became about "close and hose". Close to point blank range and fire, which is tactically not interesting. Of course, you can still play that way in regular SFB if your opponent cooperates, but in X2 you were almost forced to do it because one could not do enough damage at range to overcome 2:1 specific reinforcement and 5 point batteries.

Overall, the general consensus among serious SFB players was that the original X2 ships had a feeling of being "Monty Hall" or "Munchkin". Generally, it was broken.

I won't get into the reasons for how or why Supplement 2 was produced and subsequently disavowed. It's a ..... sensitive topic....

There has been A LOT of speculation and suggestions on the BBS for how X-2 will end up working. However, SVC (if I recall correctly) has more or less said, "yeah, that's keen, but pretty much I'm going to design them from the ground up and I may or may not pay attention to anything that's been suggested."

I *think* (but I could be wrong) that the one known design parameter for X2 ships is that they will be able to be pitted against a commensurate BPV force of general war or X1 ships without a massive leg up.

So, we can expect improvements in X2 ships, but I doubt they will be massive or earth shattering. It might very well be that they operate a new type of technology, or that they are explained as having *strategic* advantages more than having *tactical* advantages (i.e., an X2 ship is "faster" than an X1 or "fast" ship in a strategic sense, but still limited on the tactical map).

That advantage ALONE would be a good reason to build them, from an empire stand point. I also play F&E; and having "fast" and X1 ships is significantly advantageous on the *strategic* map, regardless of their combat potential. Indeed, I make it a point to build the limit of "fast" cruisers, even though their F&E *combat potential* is less than that of an "ordinary" cruiser, because of their strategic advantages (which I won't go into here).

Depending on the X-2 mission specs, they could be provided with a variety of extra "goodies" that play nicely with other non-X2 units to handle a mission where the ship is expected to be alone. E.g., X-2 skiffs, fighters, special sensors, or what have you. Maybe something new entirely.

We will just have to wait and see. I don't even think SVC knows *exactly* what X-2 is going to look like.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 04:56 pm: Edit

NT (posted in wrong topic).

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 04:57 pm: Edit

NT (posted in wrong topic)

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Rbeitzen. I proposed a mixed bag so that:
1) This could happen sooner rather than much later
2) It might be fun for players to submit stuff. Weird ships, monsters, terrain, scenarios...

It could, for instance have fighters making up part of it, which would pull all the CL stuff into one product, a nice R section on "typical partial X upgrades" by empire. Oddball pirates.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Joe,

You say

---

Quote:

The period through Operation Unity has been defined and the necessary regular-tech and X-tech published. My view is that leaves X2 as really the only module worth doing.

---

By James Everett (Jetedguy) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 08:01 pm: Edit

I would like to see the Borak and the Pelandine published. Playtest Modules E3 and E4 respectively. The Peladine have been around a while. They are long past due for publication. They both could be put together or published separately. Both are located west of the Lyrans and Hydrans so putting them together is a no brainer. X2 is not high on the list for me. I would also like to see Omega Paravians first or even the missing Magellanic races done.

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Friday, June 26, 2020 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I have suggested ships with partial X-refits in the past (no doubt others have as well). I was told something like 'not ever'. My understanding is that at least some of the powers that be wish partial x-refits had not been published at all.

THAT WOULD INCLUDE STEVE PETRICK (WHO DID NOT FIGHT HARD ENOUGH TO STOP IT) AND STEVE COLE (WHO CAME TO REGRET PUBLISHING IT).— SVC

So, good luck with that!

NO MORE PARTIAL X REFITS WILL EVER BE PRINTED.—SVC