The question is unclear.

Selling files of updated graphics you print yourself is theoretically possible, although I would have to do them and I cannot do everything at once.

Printing new counters is very expensive. Minimum run is 1000 and that is for products selling under 100 per year. Some products need 108 and others 216. The math doesn't work, and we would end up spending about $15000 that it would take ten years to get back. If you want to invest $15,000 I will happily reprint them all and pay you back with a profit as each one sells. Selling off the existing stock for cost (or the cost of new ones) sounds good but no one will buy them. We know, we tried.

By Michael Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 12:25 am: Edit

I wonder if there is any new version of POD tech that would let you print counter sheets on demand?

I know you've mastered it for regular printing, but has the art/ tech advanced?

Or is the bottleneck the darn cutting (with dies?)???

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 12:32 am: Edit

I think the only way to cut with print on demand would be laser cutting. That's what a couple of companies I've heard of that do POD games or just cut thier own counters in house.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 01:43 am: Edit

It's the die-cutting that is the killer, not the printing (although color offset printing isn't cheap either).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 06:19 am: Edit

Yes, the die cutting is the issue. We only found one workable die cut on demand place and they will NOT do half inch counters. Every inch of blade in the die adds that much pressure and half inch exceeds what their machines will do. I tried to discuss doing sheets of half inch that have fewer counters but they would not even reply to my email. We did buy some one inch from them.

By Allen Ferelli (Ender_Xenocide) on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 09:40 am: Edit

Thanks for the responses. I do see the issue. Just love the new counters and have never been a miniatures guy :-)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, March 28, 2020 - 11:02 pm: Edit

What about doing a Star Fleet Battles game aid book?

A number of other game companies over the years have released various game supplements to assist players groups campaigns with Judges Guild, GDW, FASA, and a bunch of AD&D vendors all released products for the home gaming market.

One possible example of what might work for The Star Fleet Universe would be a “Sector” booklet.

Just building on the “1,000 useful places” published in various places (it was noted in the Federation Express Co article in GURPS Federation, for example) let’s assume that each F$E hex does Infact have 1,000 useful places.

Said booklet might have a page or two of random tables that a game master who needs to Use to populate a sector, and a simple set of rules for rolling Dice to resolve.

Make it a general product with lots of pages to be filled in by the gamers.

For example, page 1&2, are the rules pages.
3&4, random tables.
Page 5, would always be the largest “government base” in the sector. (If the f&e hex has a star base symbol printed on it, the base would be a Star base. If the symbol is a BTS (Battlestation), then it’s a BTS. If nothing is in the hex on the F&E map sheet, the default is a Base Station. (One of the random tables on pages 3&4, could be used to determine if it’s a Empire Naval facility, or if it belongs to the sector government, or if it belongs to a planetary naval force.)

We could assume that there are always (well, if Romulan, may be not...) four class M (terra like) planets in four different star systems. If each star system could have 5 pages templates for fleshing out each star system. One page for the class M world, and four other pages for the rest of the star system use ful places. (Agriculture colony on a mood of a gas giant planet.)(mining colony in an asteroid belt.)(science ground station on a world in the star system, but is not class M.)

The result is, pages 6,7,8,9&10 would all represent locations in the same star system. Pages 11,12,13,14&15 the second star system in the Sector. Pages 16,17,18,19&20 the third star system. Pages 21,22,23,24,&25 the fourth. And pages 26,27,28,29 &30 the fifth system.

That adds up to 25 “useful places” in the sector. If the next 15 pages were used for two locations per page, that would add 30 useful places, or a total of55 out of the 1,000 locations in the sector.

If the next 3 pages just listed data for each location on one line, and each page could hold 30 lines, that adds 90 more locations. That brings the total to (55+90)=145.

More that 10% Of the total places.

If the game master did a second booklet of “unlisted locations” ( Orion Pirate hide outs, hidden bases, fences etc.)((hidden worlds controlled by enemy empires....)(sentient populated worlds, not yet contacted by the local empire) (old Kings outpost world controlled by super computer, with unbelievably powerful ground defenses...)

Well, you get The idea.

Each booklet sold would profit ADB, shouldn’t require significant designer R&D time and expand the players game database.

Other booklets that fit in the same area might include planetary star ports. (Just a different set of random tables.) the page templates might as well be identical to the first book. It’s just to give an idea of the size and resources that a planets star port has.

Or there might be a booklet on mining facilities. On non M class worlds, such a thing could amount to a huge industrial facility.

Same thing, a booklet on populating Agricultural worlds or moons (even orbiting farms?!?)

Prison worlds? Moons? Asteroids?

A booklet that details small or medium Research stations or bases?

Traveler Game System has an independent Scout force. In the game systems, such scout bases were common. There is nothing comparable in Star Fleet Battles, but the Klingons have imperial security. Is there room for a special booklet so imperial security facilities, bases and “useful places” could be documented, and useable by the game master, if not the players in his group?

Once a Generic template Is created, (actually, three of them. One for a single world, a second that details two locations on a single page, and the 30 line world lists described above.) the only design time is developing the rules on pages 1&2, and the random tables on pages 3&4. The only problem should be filling the orders.

In all cases, ADB published information on what is located in any hex s always primary. Player generated information is for local campaign use only.

By Ryan Opel (Ryan) on Monday, March 30, 2020 - 09:01 pm: Edit

I like this idea. Great info for Prime Directive campaigns.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 12:06 am: Edit

Thanks, Ryan.

That is where most of the potential sales would go, I imagine.

But SFB campaigns could use it for local campaigns.

Extreme F&E players might find various uses as well. For example, One booklet could provide Easy access for an empires Home world capital hex. Doesn’t have to be the detail a PD GURP group requires. But it could list a planets defenses PDU units. Instead of laminating the pages, us the 3M companies post it note products (various small sizes or shapes) to write changes to. When game over, remove the posted notes, and the original pages (filled out of course by the player) is ready for the next battle. Or it could list those PDBs that have converted from singles space fighters to bombers. Or, (for non Federation worlds) PF deployments.

One book to an empire (§federation might require two books...)

With four capital systems per book, most empires in a F&E game could be documented in one ready reference book.

The two per page thingys could be used to record BTS /hex info, Major or Minor Worlds outside of the empires capital hex. (Well, the Federation again has too many n map worlds for one book, but if decided between east and western fronts, it should be plenty.

Things that could be documented easily for a F&E campaign could include transfers of PDU battalions from at start worlds to new locations during the game. Then when the game is over, just remove the sticky notes. Reusable resource.

One other idea, that I thought of after I posted, was to use a ring binder, with dividers.

That way, published pages of Worlds already done by ADB (published in captains log or GURPS PD materials), could be placed in with the players home campaign information.

That way, all of the players information could be grouped together for easy reference.

I did not provide a name or title.

What about calling the product “Star Fleet Battles Astrogators Logs?“ or how about” NavigatorsLogs & Star Charts”?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 07:36 am: Edit

One other idea:

This booklet could be the cornerstone of an Operations level Star Fleet Battles Campaign.

It would need a set of rules, detailing exploration, discovery, production etc. the players could determine what year the game starts in, turns 1 month long.

Economics would use the existing Basic Point Values (BPV) system in Star Fleet Battles. Time to construct ships or non ship units would need to be defined (say one month for size class 4 or smaller hulls, 2 months for size class 3, 3 months for size class 2, and 12 months for size class 1. (Battleships and star bases.)

Any hexagon map with numbered hexes would work, with the Gorn, Kzinti, Klingon, Romulan empires located in the corner areas. The Tholians (using planets instead of a Dyson sphere)in the bottom center, and the Federation Top middle area of the map.

Counters would be from the SFB game set.

I know there are lots of their details to be worked out, but this hits some of the Issues. Each participating empire would require their own booklet. Just using the structure of the booklet posted above in this thread, that means each empire would have a star base and up to 24 worlds or moons in their home world hex, up to 30 major or minor worlds in hexes other than the capital hex, and up to 90 places to record other bases, colonies or outposts(mining, agricultural,science,prison, etc.)

Combined with ideas from the campaign designers book, home gaming groups would have a workable method to handle an operational campaign.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 06:23 pm: Edit

Just getting things to scale properly is the problem. F&E is the strategic level, then there should be the Theater level, then maybe the Operational level (there might be a sub-theater level between them), and so on down to the tactical (SFB) level [though the SFB level might actually be the sub-tactical level?] and then on down to the ground level (Marines) …

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Stewart:

Good points.

All this booklet idea does is provide a way to organize the stuff not in Star Fleet Battles. Mostly background data.

Too large an area, or too many places, and instead of a organized list, it could become swamped in minutia.

As proposed, one booklet would be about right to cover a single f&e hex for the largest population worlds down to selected outposts. As I indicated above, a game master might be required to handle “Fog of war” issues (pirates, hidden bases, monsters etc.)

For an operational level game, there would need to be some way to track income, repairs, refits, in such a way that It doesn’t slow down the game.

If you (generic ‘you’, not you personally! Grin) wanted to track marines, I suppose a single book ***COULD*** be used to detail unit deployments.

If it were me, I would use the booklet to list base assignments of the actual unit Head Quarters. Then all you need is a log recording The various detachment assignments.

If you were analytical enough, you could use another booklet to keep track of other ground units on detached duty. For example, combat engineers, pioneer units, medical units (example: MASH, evacuation hospitals, even battalion aide stations assignments.)

Seems like a lot of work, if all you want/need is a way to model events in a single f&e sector.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 11:33 am: Edit

Going back to something Jeff mentioned earlier, here's some RPG things that I think would be very cool:

- The breakdown on the crew roles and responsibilities for a small freighter, free trader, and workboat.

- The breakdown of a sustainable but small colony that would be a typical hotspot for ad hoc adventurers. What does the starport look like? What's the government like? What's the general population look like? How many cities towns are there, and how do they interact? How is such a colony run differently by the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans? Basically a nice "open world" with at least six adventure hooks.

- The description of the relevant worlds and colonies of a single "open hex" on the F&E map. Basically something that would be the entire adventure area for a group with a shuttle craft. Obviously, this is much higher level than the prior entry, but should include the prior entry.

The above is intended for use by a civilian adventuring party.

Now, for something on the other side ...

- Create a campaign that includes six entire adventures that happen to the crew of a small naval ship. (I was thinking of of a Federation frigate, but could be a Police Cutter instead for a different feel.) Think of each adventure as being an "episode" for a TV series.

- Create a campaign that includes six adventures/episodes for the crew of a gunboat attached to a base (BS/BATS) on the border of the Klingon empire or Romulan empire (which border is up to the writer).

Or combine the two sections with this:

- Create a setting for use by an ISF team. Build out the overview of a region covered by the crew of a G2 (or G1 flotilla) with plenty of adventure seeds. The reason for the ISF instead of DSF is because they have to deal with more stuff, yet are treated like crap.

This is all RPG focused, but is also background focused. Rather than worrying about the big picture and the movements of large fleets, here the idea is to dive down and get to know some "irrelevant" piece much better. In order to let some piece of the SFU feel more alive.

Just a thought.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Another good point.

The RPG aspect is one of those voids that can swallow huge amounts of effort. On the plus side, it could only expand the market for any products ADB can provide.

My proposal was for one booklet to document stellar locations of bases planets or outposts. What Mike is suggesting is an open series of things to support RPG campaigns.

For example, if we use the same “structure” for a booklet to build crew rosters of ships encountered (or run by...) GURPS PD adventurers, let the first couple of pages be rules or tables for filling up the attributes/histories of the nocturnal entries. Pages random encounter tables for events commonly experienced by said civilian ships.

Then four groups of 5 pages each to detail four civilian ships... perhaps one of those pages being lined graph paper four deck plans?

Then the next 15 pages to document other ships in less detail, 2 ships or units per page or up to 30 such units.

And that leaves the rest of the pages in the booklet as a log (list of encounters) of the ports of call, ship encounters. Make a column for dates, coordinates (f&e hex number, the ID number of the place encountered (up to 1,000.))

Call it he Star Fleet helmsman log.

F ADB wanted to expand the series, just do a similar booklet for Prime teams log book. Or a marine majors log, or an Engineers log.

Lots of ideas.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 03:15 pm: Edit

SPP just posted a entry in another topic about manning an infantry company.

Good example of much of the information that a booklet in this proposed series would need to populate a Star Fleet marine captains log, describing the maneuver element of a planetary defense battalion.

Another section for said proposed booklet might detail the militia element composed of “part time soldiers” that could be mobilized to reinforce the PDB.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Another booklet that might make running a GURPs PD adventure group easier would be a generic bases. Such as a CPL (commercial platform). I know Garth Getgen has worked on hanger pods for use on a POL deck plan for the POV.

That in theory would seem to imply that the deck plans exist and could be included in a booklet like this. Since the pods are standard size, that means they (again, in theory) could be adapted to some of the standard pods common to service In the alpha octant. Things like barracks, VIP, science etc.

Same with SAMs, and the mobile base.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 12:29 am: Edit

There was a product published called 50 star ports”, I think it was Judges Guild, but might have been another company (“flying buffalo?!?)

Point is, the booklet was just 50 pages of small star ports of varying sizes and abilities, none of which had Formal defenses (like PDU or defense battalions). Might have had def stats, but the game system( traveler) did not cover that specifically in the rules.

Just suggesting that a GURPS PD booklet Of 50 small star ports would give a Gaming group a variety of worlds to explore. Same system as discussed above. 1-2 pages intro and rules to populate such star ports, (perhaps just a list of shops, smaller ports might only have 1 or 2 shops or stores. Larger ports would have more places, the largest ports, several of each type.

The remaining 46 pages are just maps showing lay out of the buildings and streets. Perhaps (depending on tech level) some sort of transportation. Perhaps a street grid.

Just something that would help a game master create adventures.

And again, ideally ADB staff would only need to spend a small amount of time and produce a aid for the RPG element.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 03:20 am: Edit

50 spaceports book would take months of work. If somebody NOT IN THE OFFICE does it it would still take an entire month of editing, layout, a pond proofreading. Great product idea but more work than anything else I can imagine.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 09:24 am: Edit

Steve, what about a “cut and paste” booklet?

Page1&2 could be rules on how to use the product, pages 3&4 images of over head view of various buildings Of various sizes ., and the rest of the pages blank grid pages.

The point is to let the customers buy the booklets, photocopy the buildings, cut and paste on the grid pages to design their own star port designs.

blank grid pages, should not require significant r&d time. Considering the fact that modern copiers have the capability to zoom and expand the size of the material being copied, you might experiment with different size grids so players could have a choice between smaller or large area space ports.

It’s a “design at home” product. Not a “ready to play” module.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 10:22 am: Edit

It may be that I am an engineer but I can buy graph paper anywhere and draw rectangular or even round boxes all by myself. I don't need the product and cannot see anyone buying it.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 11:33 am: Edit

For what it may be worth GURPS 3E has 4 Space Atlas books that are on W-23 in pdf. They wouldn't be out of the box ready to run, but they would take little effort, particularly if there was a G:PD guideline of what various planetary capabilities are provided by SFU set ups.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 12:34 pm: Edit

There are so many colonies, each at a different point in a different development track, that the "development timeline" would be a meaningless collection of exceptions and special cases. Just add whatever facilities you want (within the overall timeline if your campaign is even paying attention to that).

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Just think of it as an adult coloring book.

Need a star port for GURPS PD adventure? Now the game master can tailor each one to the size needed.

By Joe Carlson (Jrc) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 04:42 pm: Edit

OPr a paint by number book of cloaked Romulan ships. (grin)

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, April 10, 2020 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Grin.

Actually, as long as we are talking about booklets as gaming aids for GURPS PD, Fed Command, Star Fleet battles levels...

Why not have a 48 page Template set?

For those rare, but still occasionally played events that crop up from time to time.

My number 1 nomination is fighter casual base. I know it’s specified in the rules, just have to look up the rule number. It’s got 30 places to park fighters, supplies, etc. We could list the 30 locations (needs a name, What shall we call it?) just assume it’s on a terrestrial world (class M.)

Each location needs a content box to record contents (drones, dash pod, cargo pods, chaff, etc.)

There might be other things there, say a ground transportation, things listed in the annex for use with PDU, trucks, tanks, trans artillery, APC. Heck, you might find any kind of Skiff parked there. Or a PF flotilla (or the surviving units of said flotilla.)

Or, if there is a Science Outpost present, logically a casual fighter base might be there to represent parking for any assigned shuttles there. So a combined floor plan of the sci OP, and 30 landing spots around it.

My #2 nomination would be a PDU template that players could record Boarding parties (regular or militia), GCL (ground combat locations. We need to check the rules for ground combat locations to make sure we leave enough room to record the contents of each listed location. Just off the top of my head it includes trucks, tanks, APC, shuttles, fighters, GAS, and all of the legal combat units (heavy weapons squads, commando squads, engineers, etc.)

Not sure if a whole world can fit on one page (all six hex sides)

#3 nomination is small moon template/large Asteroid.

#4 ... well you get the idea

The question is, are there 48 pages worth of these kind of places described by the rules sets of the ADB company product lines that have not already been described in a SSD published sheet some where?