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	Archive through September 23, 2022	25		09/25 10:40am

Thanks for the compliment.

I realise my proposals were variations on existing concepts. They say nothing's truly new, even it's new to you. Given SFBs size and history, it's hard to come up with something no one else has. We just have to propose and hope we fill a niche.

Unlike Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock. ;)

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 05:27 pm: Edit

For purposes of this thread, I have long imagined the Tholian Will as having a hierarchy of servant races. I may have babbled about it here or somewhere else on The Boards (if so, I do apologize for rehashing something shot down), but in case I haven't, I'd like to share it with you.

At the top, "Most Trusted." They are permitted SC2 ships. Only ones known were the last ones, the Seltorians (and we all know how that turned out ), but it is possible the Nebuline used to hold this position. What they may have done to lose it is unknown, but my understanding is that, if they did revolt as a race, the response from The Will would have been absolute, complete, utter genocide, and the Nebuline we see today would be the last fragmented survivors who are still being hunted.

Anyhow, getting back to the hierarchy, the second level of it are the, "Trusted." These people are permitted SC3 ships. We have no examples at this time, but I can imagine that the Nebuline MAY have once been at this level and, with a few other races, may have been trying to "Prove" themselves enough to The Will to replace the Seltorians as "Most Trusted."

(BTW, I had originally intended to try and come up with a couple new races of my own for this level in the hierarch, but failed. Miserably.)

Next level would be "Loyal." These would be permitted SC4 vessels. Again, no examples.

A fourth level, "Tame," has come to mind. These peoples, who are permitted SC5 vessels (Skiffs), are peoples who have never done anything to bring the attentions of The Will down on them, but who've also never demonstrated any degree of enhancing the order within the galaxy.

Ironically, I have thought of one "Race" (for lack of a better word) for this fourth level; an order of scholarly monks who have monastaries scattered throughout the galaxy. With no central authority, The Will had only anecdotal references as to their quiescence, no formal pledges (hence their remaining "Tame" instead of "Loyal").

They hold even that level due to those questioned by agents of The Will saying that the order imposed by The Will was beneficial to their order as well and that, logically, they'd be fools to upset the Order of The Will.

Anyhow, it was an attempt (albeit a weak one) to try and expand the SFU with a new theater. Perhaps this thread might be a place to open up "Beer Slider" type conversations about ideas?

What do you all think?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 08:26 pm: Edit

I am pretty sure that the Tholians only had one Trusted Race that they used as servants. When the trust was broken, they would genocide them and replace them with a new trusted race. This was done an unknown number of times. So there was only ever one race operating warships besides the Tholians at any given time.

The rest were either trapped on their planets, or at most allowed to operate non-military merchant vessels.

I could be mis-remembering this, and new decisions could have been made since then. But the above is what I remember being explained.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Saturday, September 24, 2022 - 11:51 pm: Edit

According to the Tholian MSSB, at least three previous “most trusted subjects” had attempted to overthrow the Tholian Will and had been destroyed for their efforts.

The MSSB also confirms that other subjugated species were allowed to operate armed freighters and auxiliary cruisers of various sizes but their numbers were tightly monitored and controlled.

I doubt the Tholians needed a formal ranking system but I find it plausible that they may have had, at any given time, a "2nd most trusted race" that could quickly step into the role of "most trusted" if the current most trusted subject race revolted (perhaps several such species were groomed at any given time). At the very least, this would stand as a warning to the current most trusted species that the Tholians did not consider them indispensable.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, September 25, 2022 - 10:40 am: Edit

The Tholians controlled a whole Galaxy. I do not think that any race could have the population of persons to run everything. The Most trusted was used to help patrol and keep down the other races. If there was not some chance of other races revolting. There would have been no need for a Most trusted.

As I understand it. The Tholians could not find planets where they could live. Their home world is so unique. They had to build Dyson spheres so they could live in a semblance of being outside.

You would need to control a whole Galaxy to build Dyson speres. The Tholians could not genocide every race in the Galaxy. They needed the population to do the work to be able to build the Dyson Speres.

How large was the Tholian fleet during these times? A fleet per quadrant with Seltorian ships as a reserve back up. I am sure not as many as may be thought. A bunch in mothballs maybe?

Other races must have known that. If the Tholians had a huge fleet, then no one would have attempted to rebel. The Seltorians first destroyed the fleet. Then went after the bases and Dyson speres.
Anyone who has played a Tholian base assault knows how hard that is and the cost in ships. The Web breaker was essential to that.

I am sure that other races had ships. Perhaps even their own police ships. To hunt down pirates and space monsters. Otherwise there never would have been revolts. Major warships need a large port/space dock to build them. Hard to hide that. However, size class 4 ships can be built any were.

Just my thoughts

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, September 26, 2022 - 02:11 pm: Edit

For what (little) it's worth, I might suggest that broader discussions on M81 as a setting ought be best kept to this sub-topic's "parent" thread - so as to leave this particular sub-thread to focus more particularly on the place of the Nebuline within it.

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Speaking of which, it might be worth figuring out at some point whether or not any of the Nebuline home nebulae have "clear" pockets within them, akin to those to be found over in the Omega Octant's Qixavalor Cloud. Or, indeed, if any of them are "hollow", akin to Omega's Ryn Nebula.

If so, that would require any "wingless" Nebuline ships operating in defence of such nebulae to be at least somewhat capable of functioning in such "open" pockets, even if only the "winged" raiders were being sent into open space in the aftermath of the Great Martial War.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, May 10, 2024 - 10:42 am: Edit

Earlier in the thread, I was speculating on the Nebuline potentially being given a "modern" version of the plasma vortex launcher (the Early Years version of which was first published in SFB Module Y2) as their primary heavy weapon.

For what it's worth, I would see direct-fire plasma weapons as being in keeping with their use of nebulae as their home territories.

But as a secondary heavy weapon, discussions elsewhere on the BBS led me to thinking: perhaps the plasma carronade (PLC) could work in that role?

PLCs are "naturally" resistant to electronic warfare shifts, and always use the true range rather than the effective range. Which would make it a relatively useful weapon to fight with in a nebula. Plus, as with the plasma-vortex launcher, it is a weapon that can be fired after one, two, or three turns' worth of arming - which would offer Nebuline warships yet more flexibility.

Indeed, one could picture the "wingless" hull types used as "line" ships appearing in two combat variants: one leaning into the plasma-vortex launcher for use in open space, and a carronade-heavy variant for close combat in a nebula.

In terms of availability, I would suggest setting "fixed" weapon mounts on the "wingless" hulls. But I would still allow the "winged" ships flown by the Nebuline privateers to have option mounts - yet with the option of installing plasma-vortex launchers and/or carronades alongside the current set of M81 weapons the old galaxy pirates have access to.

Not sure if the pirates themselves should be given access to these weapons in turn, though.

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Also, I suggested earlier that the Nebuline could use a "Nebular Combat System" - which could be a paid-for system, akin to a cloak or a Zosman Stealth field, that offers a bonus in combat inside a nebula. This would be something that has to be woven in to the hull during construction, so hulls built for "export" to the M81 Pirates do not gain access to this system.

Perhaps one of the benefits of this system could be to offer a number of "swing" EW points, which could be assigned either to ECM or to ECCM.

On the one hand, this could be used to reduce the amount of ECM imposed on the Nebuline ship's own weapons, when being fired at enemy ships in a nebula. But on the other hand, perhaps this could be used to increase the amount of ECM an enemy ship has to fire into against the Nebuline ship itself?

To clarify, this - and whatever else the would-be "NCS" would provide - would have no effect in "open" space, nor in other terrain features like the Qixavalor Cloud.

Any thoughts?