Archive through September 24, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module K2: More gunboats:
Archive through September 24, 2022
"Workboat Tenders"
These ships served as tenders to workboats operating in undeveloped systems, where the comparatively short-endurance craft would be far from other support facilities. Workboat Tenders were rarely built as new construction. They were almost always converted from old PF Tenders that were judged to be too "worn out" for combat duty.
Changes included:
Replacement of most weapons, "extraneous"* power systems, and special sensors** with Cargo, Works, Fabrication, and/or an enlarged shuttle bay. Workboat Tender shuttle bays usually included a Heavy Transport Shuttle.
Reduction in the number of Repair boxes, on the grounds that workboats would still require occasional maintenance, but not nearly as much as PFs.
Workboat Tenders frequently, though not always, had one or two Barracks boxes, representing accommodation for the miners, farmers, or construction personnel who were performing the actual work of developing the system.
*Workboat Tenders usually lost most or all of their APR. In addition, those that were built on "hot warp" designs (war cruisers) often had the engines replaced with less powerful but less maintenance-intensive and more fuel-efficient engines.
**A few Workboat Tenders retained a limited special sensor capability, for use in systems that looked economically promising but had not been fully surveyed. But this was rare due to the expense and the fact that such ships were usually sent to already-surveyed systems.
Alan Trevor:
I am sorry, but I at least am not going to support this idea at all.
If you are developing a system, you are going to have a ground base with more shuttles and workboats than your work boat tender can carry. Mining and ore-processing ships have adequate systems to support asteroid mining, and do not need a work boat tender.
Converting a warship hull to the mission is at the least inefficient, and I will note was not done for other warships (notable exception was the Federation allowing some Old CL hulls for use in colonization effort for the Aurora colony, but it was never noted as frequent or an experiment that was repeated. The Klingons stuck such hulls in mothball storage. So did the Federation.
In fairness, slap three workboat skids on a podless freighter, and you have a workboat tender on the cheap.
Jessica Orsini:
I think LASH skid and probably an accommodations skid would also be needed to have shuttles and room for people.
Workboat tender is an idea that comes up every month or two. We are not fooled. You want Fed PFs and a Fed PFT. You aren't going to get them. Do not bring this up again. Life is too short. Yours could get shorter.
My response to Jessica Orsini envisioned a three skid freighter with a Workboat skid, a LASH skid, and an Accommodations skid ( and I would add a workboat ducktail to the ship), to have most of the abilities Alan Trevor was proposing. I just think the job is handled by such a ship (and that is on a small freighter), there is no need to convert "decommissioned PFTs" to the assignment as was being proposed.
Perhaps small Aux PFTs were converted?
Why? Workboat Skids, perhaps supported with a workboat ducktail, already perform all of the mission requirements for supporting workboats. Why go to the expense of procuring an AuxPFT that does not effectively add anything?
Just an observation: tenders, as a term in SFBs has been adapted to reference to vessels, moving at warp speed, and often providing various levels of support, including, but not limited to: electronic warfare, additional seeking weapons channels, repair, reload munitions(drones) medical services (to aid injured or wounded crew) and accommodation services. (Crew do not live permanently onboard PFs when not on missions, but sleep, eat and other activities on board the tender or base the PF flotilla is assigned to.
In the real world, specifically navies (such as the United States Navy) build and operate large ships designated as tenders to provide the services and capabilities that small or specialized vessels are not Capable of for themselves.
Historically, this included seaplane tenders (at a time when the USN had and used seaplanes), Destroyer tenders, Submarine tenders.
These ships tended to anchor in safe harbors or coves, and the sea planes, destroyers or submarines to come to the Tender between missions for support. The tenders provided berthing accommodations, mess halls, recreation, repair services, medical services, dental services, barbershops etc.
What tenders in the real world did not do, is operate in direct combat (aside from occasional air attack or evade possible submarine contact.)
What seems to be needed is not a full General War tender able to fight and survive GW style combat, but rather a simple pod, with docking capacity, hull boxes, possibly a bridge box and a lab/medical facility. Possibly a minimal cargo capacity for spare parts or consumable supplies (though I have no idea what exactly a U1 might need without knowing the missions.)
It certainly does not need to maneuver, evade enemy contacts or engage in combat.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Again, a freighter with a Workboat skid can do the job, and a planetary base of operations can do the job in a system. There is no purpose to carrying a Workboat "flotilla."
The only use I see for an AUX PFT as a workboat tender, is for someone who sells, services, and delivers them. i.e. Joe gets a new set of workboats, sells them to Group A, takes their old ones as trade ins, refurbishes them on his way to Group B, rinse and repeat until the oldest set is hauled in for scrap. As a side business Joe might overhaul and refurbish ones that Group (X) isn't ready to trade in yet, but needs more work than they can do.
This only really works with "cheap" surplus war production units being sold off after the war. and even then, there may not be enough of a profit margin for this to work. Of course, there really aren't likely to be more than a handful or two of these in any given Empire.
Adding to the above, this is the sort of thing that would likely work better in G:PD than SFB.
New thought.
Why not design a cargo pod conversion as a orbital base for operating skiffs?
When towed by a tug, the pods systems must be inactive, and no crew can be embarked in the pod (pod depressurized for towing).
When deployed in its new location, the pod is powered up, pressure restored to the pod, and crew embarked.
Mission for this pod and its assigned skiffs:
First phase of colonial development of new worlds.
(This is to take legal possession of a colonizable world, to prevent pirates or other bad players from exploiting any resources the planet possesses. (Minerals, metal ores, rare earths, dilithium etc...)
Could conceivably include a set of defense satilites (Def Sat) to bolster planetary defenses.
Phase 2 might consist of deploying the initial ground bases to the planet, as well as transfer control of the def sats to ground base control.
Security Skiffs (possibly a modular courier?) would have to fly in from another base.
Just using an operations base module would be too expensive, but what ever changes were done in converting a cargo pod would be less than what an operations base would have.
The orbital base for skiffs must have a single hanger large enough to handle a skiff. (Routine maintenance, repair of battle damage, etc.). The other skiffs could dock to the pod, but couldn’t receive repairs or resupply or refuel outside of the hanger.
The pod must be able to deionize the skiffs engines just as a regular base.
Does not have positional stabilizers, as it is a temporary base and is only going to be deployed until a regular operations base can get deployed.
No special sensors.
Must have sufficient hull to handle its own crew as well as off duty skiff crews between missions. Possibly 1 or 2 barracks to house off duty skiff personnel.
Needs a control box, (brdge?)
APR, perhaps 2.
Minimum movement for tactical movement. 2 impulse boxes?
Tractor box.
Transporter box.
2 lab? (Sick bay.)
Self defense phasers? 2 phaser 3?
Battery?
When not being used to repair or refuel skiffs, the hanger would be used as a admin shuttle hanger, 2 boxes 4?
4 crew units?
2 deck crew
2 boarding parties?
Shields? Minimum would be 5 box shields in all 6 shield facings?
What else would be needed?
Additional missions?
Emergency prisoner of war monitoring base?
Captured POWs could be landed on a class M world with minimal equipment and clothing (no powered gear, no communicators, no weapons.)
Use the transporter to beam rations down to the POWs.
It would function until a regular POW administration could be established.
Best of all, it would take the prisoners decades to generate technology, much longer to fabricate a space ship to escape the gravity well of the planet.
Any other missions such a barge and a set of skiffs and def sats could perform?
Jeff, I hate to say this, but I think Commercial Platforms and/or SAMs kinda have this mission covered.
It's also my understanding that Skiffs aren't like Module K Gunboats; they're engineered to deionize their own engines, so wouldn't need that particular service facility (and historically haven't). Also, while I don't know exactly what the rule number is (let alone exactly what the rule says), but when two ships are docked together, they can transfer cargo and/or passengers. Skiffs to SAMs or Commercial Platforms are no different.
A potential alternate way to handle the assignment might be to have an obsolete Survey Freighter (Wild guess, it's in module Y3) be assigned to the new colony. After all, one of the Survey Ship missions is to help in the establishment of new colony worlds.
Sorry if I sound like a jerk about it. I like the enthusiasm behind the idea, but I think it's covered already. 
Why skiffs? Just use workboats
Also isn't there a freighter base that does this stuff?
Mike Grafton:
Because middle year Skiffs YIS is 130, Fed Tug YIS 135 and Work Boats YIS 183.
Oh, and since you mentioned it, the PCS YIS 165.
Jeff Anderson:
Both CPL and SAM bases would only be deployed to a colony AFTER it has been established and there being enough revenue to justify deployment of both types of orbiting base.
The basic idea here, is a cheap temporary barge to prevent any one from appropriating the natural resources before regular defenses can be established.
Also note, there must be a ground station or an orbiting base to maintain the DEF SAT package. (Each DEF SAT bpv is 25.). Def Sats would not normally be deployed to a world PDU unless there was sufficient support to maintain the units. No ground or orbiting bases means that, given enough time, the Def Sats would eventually fail.)
Note#2, the normal option is to deploy a monitor (and pallet). The BPV of which is 100/160.
Depending on what the barge costs (30 bpv at a guess), a skiff bpv is 24 bpv, a MCR is 15/11
So (if the barge cost is accurate) the barge+skiff prices out as (30+24=54) or more, dependiing on how many and what type skiffs are deployed.
The reason to use this option would be if there is a perceived need for defense, but that it (the danger/risk) being less than requiring a full Monitor + pallet. (The price would be higher for a monitor + SCS pallet and the value of any fighters or PFs deployed with the monitor.)
Jeff (Wile),
I don't know. I'm not convinced this is a powerful enough defense to do the job you want it to do. In the long run, an expensive option that gets the job done is usually cheaper than a cheap option that fails to do so.
You're trying to build PFs before PFs were built. PFs are not Skiffs and Skiffs are not PFs. No deal.
Pardon my ignorance, what product(s) do the rules for skiffs and workboats appear in?
Jeff: skiffs were introduced in Module R8; workboats in Module R11.
Workboats are PFs stripped of weapons and used for utility services in various empires.
Skiffs are small ships (the size of gunboats but not really intended for combat, more for police duties). Since we put skiffs in the game, players have been trying to warp them into combat attrition units, something that will never be allowed.
Basically PFs are skiffs that the Lyrans figured out how to over gun, at the drawback of the engine ionization? And carry on mechlinks? And this before that breakthrough skiffs are just mini starships?
Strange conversation. I've never connected the dots between PF and skif.
I'm likely way off base here, but a crab boat, a Coast Guard patrol boat, and a WW2 gun boat are all about the same size, yet no one would ever confuse one for the other, or try to convert one to another. They're designed from the keel up as different species with different operational parameters.
Alex. No. INTERCEPTORS a new breed of craft with engines of an entirely new type. PF are enlarged interceptors
They just happen to be about the same size as skiffs.
Gotcha 