While working on something else, I realized there were several F-111 focused carriers. If the Feds had used gunboats, then all of them would have been PFTs, not carriers. The conversion is pretty simple (F-111 mech links -> gunboat mech links; cargo -> repair), but as far as I can tell, the PFT version of these ships have never been done.

Specifically, I am talking about:
- BCS: would carry 6xF-14 and 6xPF
- ACS: would carry 12xF-18B+ and 6xPF
- NDS: would carry 12xF-18B+ and 6xPF
- DCS: would carry 12xF-18B+ and 6xPF
- CVH: would carry 6xPF
- NHV: would carry 6xPF
- ADW: would carry 3xPF (a pair can have a "real" flotilla)
- P-HVL: would carry 6xPF
- GVH: would carry 6xPF
In addition, a set of AuxPFTs wouldn't be out of line, either. (I assume these would be standard AuxPFTs, not versions of their Aux F-111 carriers converted back to carry gunboats.)
I know the NPF and SCSA were done, so they aren't listed. I think the SDS-A was also done, so it isn't listed, either.

I assume no DD or CL based PFTs. By the point the gunboats arrived, the numbers of either hull were limited, and they both had way more valuable variants to be made into. Unless you want to publish designs that are conjectural even in a conjectural setting. (I kinda doubt that.)

In fact, have a whole section in the R2 rules that explicitly outlines what changes are made to the Federation rules and capabilities would happen, if they used gunboats. Obviously, there are no F-111s and they don't get the Third Way. But, what about SWACs? They obviously do get SWACs, as the CVA was made way before gunboats were ever thought of. But do they abandon them? When is that? What fighters and bombers are not made because gunboats made them irrelevant? How hard to the Feds adopt gunboats? Do they use casual gunboats in addition to flotillas?

The point is that the Thunderbolt was introduced into the game a very long time ago and the impact of what that would mean, giving how much the game as evolved since then, is something that is worth exploring.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, August 03, 2021 - 09:55 am: Edit

I wouldn't mind seeing a FF type of PFT. Perhaps a FF with ONE special sensor and a pair of PF. A few repair boxes.

IIRC the smallest ships currently having Mech Links are destroyers.

These ships used the pair of PFs in lieu of having any firepower of their own. Often were used as (fast) convoy escorts. Also moderately common wtih small Battle groups to provide some PF support and a scout sensor...

So (example) Klingon PFT baby.

E4. Replace both Disr with mech links. Replace drone with Special sensor. Replace a couple boxes in the after hull section with repair. Probably an APR (?) and trac/ trans/ whatever.

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 01:50 pm: Edit

I know that this goes against "Steve and Steve" established doctrine, so please don't shut this down preemptively and summarily.

I feel that there was a missed opportunity to shape Carnivon doctrine into more of a "pack hunting" role. Yes, I know that ship sailed so long ago, it had the most advanced canvas sails known to man...

What I'm talking about was to have the Heel Nipper on their light vessels -- the fast and maneuverable ones that could get in and help "steer" the prey into the jaws of the heavy units and the Deathbolts.

To this end, could we consider a *simulator* version of the Carnivon PF that has a single HN on board? A flotilla of these could help ensure the destruction of ships by making them turn involuntarily turning into seeking weapons or disrupting fleet formations...

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 09, 2021 - 01:31 am: Edit

Okay, here's another suggestion, not for a new type of PF but a new (sort of PF tender); the "Strike PFT".

I need to stipulate the suggestion is not original with me. It comes originally from (I think) Robert Cole. My apologies both to him and to whoever did originate the idea, if I am misremembering the origin.

The strike PFT would essentially be the PF counterpart of the heavy cruiser-based strike carrier. It would not have special sensors, but would be a"true PFT" with the ability to carry a standard flotilla, and the Repair systems to keep them operational. If you look at something like the D7V (to consider using the Klingons as an example), but replace the fighter squadron with a PF flotilla and some Repair, you would have a strike PTF.

Note that some ships that more-or-less adhere to the "strike PFT" concept already exist; the Romulan Optimized Condor, for example. It's a dreadnought rather than a cruiser, but it has no special sensors and supports the combat with weaponry (and the PF flotilla, of course) rather than EW. The Lyrans also have some ships that already approximately meet the strike PFT criteria. A couple of days ago I proposed a possible Tholian "Strike PFT" in that proposal section. But other empires might be interested in such ships as well.

It could be argued that by basing your PF flotilla on a strike PFT rather than a more conventional CW-based PFT (with special sensors), you are loosing EW capability. But consider the following; your battle fleet includes both a heavy cruiser (or a CC) and a CW-based PFT (as well as other ships). Suppose instead that you change that cruiser to a strike PFT and the CW-based PFT to a CWS scout. the total cost of that battle fleet will be about the same. And you are loosing a little firepower, since the CC or CA conversion to a strike PFT will generally mean loosing some weapon or power systems, or both. But since most (though not quite all) CWPs only have two special sensors, converting the CWP to a CWS actually improves your electronic warfare capability. So the battle fleet as a whole would have slightly less weaponry but two more special sensors, which could be an attractive trade-off.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, August 09, 2021 - 01:54 am: Edit

Note also that although Robert Cole's original proposal was for strike PFTs based on CA or CC hulls, the example of the Romulan ROC, or some of the big Lyrans, shows that some empires might choose to field dreadnought-based or BCH-based strike PFTs.

Well, isn't a dreadnought-based strike PFT a space control ship without fighters; surely a step backwards? But it would be cheaper than an SCS since you wouldn't have to pay for the fighter squadron. And if removing the fighters allowed re-installation of some of the weapons/power that almost all dreadnoughts lose when converted to an SCS, the overall result might be more "cost effective", depending on how good your fighters are. (I note that in F&E, all fighter squadrons are essentially equal, with a few exceptions such as the Fed "elite" fighters and the Hydran Stinger-Xs. But that's definitely not th case in SFB. In my opinion (for whatever that's worth), the ROC is much better value for the BPV than the Phoenix SCS.)

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 12:06 am: Edit

I thought everybody knew what a strike PFT is. It's a PFT without special sensors, keeping whatever weapons were removed from the base hull to make a spot for the special sensors.

Three are envisioned: CW, NCA, BCH.

What more is there to say?

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Monday, August 30, 2021 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Slap three workboat skids on a podless freighter, and you have a workboat tender on the cheap.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, March 25, 2026 - 11:33 am: Edit

In the “could it be any more obvious variants” category, the following Federation F-111 platforms do not have a published PF tending analogue. They seem natural candidates for inclusion in K2 - likely already on file, but figure it would be good to have a list to double check!

(R2.100) CVH Heavy Fighter Carrier (One interesting wrinkle that could be done here is to not include special sensors, based on Star Fleet intending the class to operate akin to the Lyran BCP rather than an analogue to the Klingon D6P - part of fleets where a dedicated scout would be present so it is meant to be a pure combat platforms).

(R2.101) P-FCF F-111 Transport Pod

(R2.111) NDS New Division Control Ship

(R2.113) NVH New Heavy Fighter Carrier

(R2.126) GVH National Guard F-111 Carrier

(R2.130) VDB Bombardment Carrier (ok we might be getting silly with this one! I’m sure the F&E players would love it.)

(R2.133) DCS Division Control Ship

(R2.140) ADW Light Attack Carrier

(R2.A21) LVH Light Heavy Fighter Carrier (also an obvious include in and of itself)

(R2.208) GVX Advanced Technology Medium Carrier (non-X versions of the GSC as both F-111 and PF platforms would be more extensive conversions of the GSC then simply fitting out as CVLs, but would still be powerful ships)