Archive through July 16, 2026
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module J3: Back in the Cockpit:
Archive through July 16, 2026
How about a refit available to any carriers which automates deck crews and halves the time required, in impulses, to perform any and all deck crew actions? The refit cost would have to be determined but perhaps it should be along the lines of adding double drone control to a ship? I think this cost, under the old ship mod rules, was 10% of the overall ship BPV?
SVC: NO, THIS IS JUST A CHEAT CODE, NOT GOING THERE.
Quote:Seriously, this isn't new (it's been proposed many times) so nobody is getting their name on it.
Well, I mean...I can think of a good way to get people to stop suggesting the obvious thing...
And this IS the 'Module J3' topic, so, really - if not here, then where? 
Quote:Sure, it only takes two inches of space. But players will say "why didn't you use those two inches for something I'd actually use?"
Feels sus? Ain't no player ever ACTUALLY said that about anything that expanded the setting, as I've heard, anyway. Especially over what would otherwise have been certainly blank space. At least in the experience I've had with running into SFB fans with huge collections of ships and modules over the years - anything that adds something new/different/interesting/never-seen-before is EMPHATICALLY preferred.
I have a suggestion for another refit for carriers which would allow them, for drones they control, to give the drones 360 degree tracking arc, and forego the need of the drone to get closer to the target. Essentially this gives a very limited number of drones a "wire guided" capability. Refitting of the carriers themselves, is the best way IMO to avoid rewriting any rules or making changes to the master ship chart or any R sections. New fighters or new fighter capabilities would not avoid this issue, IMO.
SVC: NO, THIS IS JUST A CHEAT CODE, NOT GOING THERE. SIGH.
So far as the above "light shuttle" concept is concerned:
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For comparison's sake, the Federal Republic of Aurora has shuttle bombs (OJ5.0).
Initially, two of these can be swapped in for a single admin shuttle; after Y182, advances in miniaturization enable the FRA to swap three in per admin shuttle instead.
However, these units have no cargo or passenger capacity, and must be remote-controlled (unless ATG is installed into them, once that technology is made available to the Auroran Navy).
And further, shuttle bombs are not represented on any ship SSDs, since they are not included as "standard" munitions. Although certain later FRA units are designed with the use of shuttle bombs in mind, in terms of how their respective shuttle bays are configured. In any case, it's up to the players themselves to keep track of any shuttle bombs they are making use of.
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Meanwhile, there are certain empires which have their own distinct shuttle types (and sizes). However, these tend to be empire-specific.
For example, Bolosco admin shuttles (OR20.S1) are larger than average, but are still just able to land in a "standard" size-1 shuttle bay.
They have eight damage points as standard, but can move no faster than Speed 5 (or Speed 10 with warp booster packs). Plus, the added bulk of the shuttle restricts the on-board phaser-3 to an FA firing arc.
These shuttles have increased cargo, passenger, and bomb capacity relative to a "standard" admin shuttle. However, they have reduced "lab" capacity , so aren't as useful when gathering information on space monsters.
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For their part, the Hivers, whose units are two sizes smaller than average, consider their Barb fighters to be frigates. While they do also have units that are functionally equivalent to admin shuttles, no doubt they refer to those in-universe by some other term.
On a side note: the Hivers are unique in that they are able to transfer Barbs from one side of Hiver space to another, via a network of small bases known as landing pads. However, this only works because the internal configuration of a Barb "frigate" is not the same as that of a "regular" fighter, and does indeed have certain features more akin to those on "full-sized" warships.
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By and large, I wouldn't be in a hurry to see the concept of a "light shuttle" be adopted in the Alpha Octant.
And even outside of Alpha, given the precedent set by shuttle bombs, I would not want a "human-sized" or larger species to operate such a unit - or at least not one which had any kind of combat capacity.
Now, I suppose it might be an option for the Hivers to get something akin to a light shuttle as a logistical unit of some kind. There could be a need for a set of Hiver-specific transport and/or "civilian" units to be drawn up some day, and this could (or could not) be a part of that.
Which I suppose raises the question of whether or not the Hivers ever made half-sized "corvettes" also. Perhaps for in-system use only?
In any case, such lines of discussion might be best held elsewhere on the BBS...
I don't see that work-bees or space cars have any place in SFB / FedCmdr, but I do welcome them for Prime Directive.
Garth L. Getgen
SPP and I discussed this half-shuttle in the car as I drove him back to VA Monday night. He and I agree that there is no need for this and we aren't interested in publishing it. We would never allow it to be an SP, WW, or Suicide Shuttle, and allowing players to swap these into existing ships is pointless and dangerous. Please drop the subject.
I might comment that a "repair shuttle" exists as a variant of the prospecting shuttle.
"Ain't no player ever ACTUALLY said that "
There you would be wrong, totally wrong, I get that comment too many times. Most would rather have an empty spot, and I know more SFB players than you do.
"if not here, then where?"
Nowhere I can think of. Dead Horse. En Orbis Porcus.
Dennis: I cannot approve either of your ideas. They basically just say "throw the rulebook in the trash and game balance with it."
I'd like to see a LD4V for the Roms. Take a Klingon D4, and do the usual "V" conversion & Rom adaptation.
Would work well with older Rom ships...
A while back there was some discussion of bringing back the Gorn "D" refit (wing-mounted Fs become D-racks). I don't think it ever went anywhere, but maybe this would good place to insert it?
If it went away, maybe it needs to stay gone.
Perhaps, if you are opposed, that's fine. The Gorns have survived this long without it, but they do struggle with drone armed opponents and this would help.
I would have to research why it was dumped in the first place. That might give explain a problem we solved by deleting it, a problem that would return if we un-deleted it. Anybody remember why? Since that was done I have had surgery several times and the sleepy goop they gave me scrambled my memory of this particular point.
Think the Gorn D-refit was given to escorts (DE/BDE/HDE) and carriers (CV/HDV) …
SVC.....my suggestions for carrier refits are not made under the assumption that you would not decide what the proper refit cost would be before putting them in J3. I am saying that I have no idea what that cost would be, nor am I suggesting that players decide for themselves what the BPV adjustment would be. But they are refits that could be included in J3 without the need to alter anything in the rulebook or change anything in the Master ship charts or R section. Fighters and technology in general has advanced significantly since when SFB was first written and in my opinions, as it is with many others I know, SFB fighters and drones could use a small facelift because current tech in the real world actually seems more advanced than fighter and drone tech in the SFU. J3 would be an opportunity to add some fun, optional things to that area of the game universe.
The refit cost would be one billion.
Seriously, we're not discussing the cost. I rejected the proposal outright. Cost is irrelevant.
SVC - It is no big deal to our gaming group whether anything like my proposal is in J3 or not. We use home brew rules all the time that are loads of fun and I am sure other players would as well. Can you be more specific about the types of ideas you think are good for J3 that you would be looking for? I think we understand what you don't want and I assume you also don't want to entertain anything that would require rules mechanics to be changed nor any changes to the R sections?
How about rules for speed 40 fighters but a saving show must be made to see if the warp pack is damaged or destroyed? Or, allowance for fighters to move even faster but the warp pack MUST be dropped at the end of turn? We always thought fighters should be able to move much faster than they do. However, their speed, when launching seeking weapons cannot exceed 30.
I cannot define overall categories. An idea is good or bad on its individual merits. I'm looking for ideas that people will pay for, not things to fill space that nobody will use, and certainly not things that break the game.
Speed 40 fighters aren't going to happen. They would be game breaking.
The only thing I'd ask for, for a Module J3, is something about which I have hesitations.
First generation carriers here on Earth were frequently converted conventional warships (Lexington and Saratoga were originally laid down as Battlecruisers, as were Ark Royal, if I remember right, and both Kaga and Akagi), some of which retained their "Big Guns for Conventional Naval Action," like Lex and Sara kept four twin turrets with eight inch guns.
It was with experience that we learned the surface guns weren't necessary and detracted from them in their better understood primary mission of supporting the air wings.
In SFB, we have Patrol and Interdiction Carriers; CWs and CCs which exchange heavy weapons for additional fighters.
Meanwhile, CVAs still retain some (most?) of their DN heavy weaponry.
What about DN hulled carriers that have exchanged their heavy weapons for the capacity to operate even MORE fighters? The Hydrans have one (then again, the Hydrans are something unique when it comes to fighter shuttles, which I like 
), but what about for other races? The Feds, for example, having a supercarrier that has three squadrons; one of A-10s and two of F-14s, but no Photon Torpedoes.
(Yes, I know about the Federation SCS, but this is meant as a sort of parallel...)
The biggest problem with them, and the reason why I have some reticence about suggesting it, is how messy a game board would be with three dozen fighters from each side, all with drones going. It would be a mess of the highest order!
Still, are such carriers unreasonable?
Even if they are conjectural, X fighters for more races is a thing that could be done.
An advanced fighter able to reload it's heavy weapons, or with some of the capabilities of a Hiver frigate.
Other variants similar to the A-7 able to opperate off comercial vessels or as fighters for neutrals or auxiliaries or as casual fighters on warships.
Just what does a neutral zone planet's PDU look like? Can they get fighters from the adjacent empires? Do fighters have export versions or downgraded national guard versions?
More direct fire fighters, maybe with improved chaff or something like an ADD onboard so they aren't just drone bait against the (usually very superior) drone fighters, because drone fighters clutter the board to an (IMAO) unacceptable extent. The A-10 and Stinger-II show that acceptably powerful direct fire fighters can exist.
CVR (DN carriers with no heavy weapons and 36 fighters) have been on my "if I get desperate" list for some time.
Conjectural stuff doesn't sell very well. Players resent getting it. Still...
Fighter than can reload heavy weapons is not happening. Game breaker. Engineering won't support it.
Fighters on commercial vessels was dismissed in a captain's log fiction story a long time ago.
I am sure neutral planets can buy fighters. I don't see this as taking any space in a product or being a reason for players to buy that product.
I will think about more direct-fire fighters but players haven't been interested.
"Speed 40 fighters aren't going to happen. They would be game breaking."
I agree. BUT could there be a overspeed mode on LATE booster packs that let a fighter (or PF maybe) speed 40 for 4-8 impulses? At the end the pack is destroyed and there is a point of damage to the fighter? No turns for the duration of the overspeed?
Seems like a reasonable tradeoff. And pretty self limiting.
Doesn't something like this already exist in the game?
MJ2.0 MAGELLANIC OVERDRIVE
Whatever happens in Magellanic or Omega doesn't drive what happens in Alpha. If they did it, fine, but that doesn't mean Alpha can, will, or must.
Fighters going speed 40 isn't happening, not for 32 impulses, not for 8 impulses, not for four impulses, not for 3.14156 impulses, not for one impuse. Dead Horse. Can we move on?
Once upon a long time ago, I suggested a Gnat Fighter. Foggy memory, but as I recall: half-space, two per shuttle box (probably a no-go), fast (at least 24) and maneuverable (best turn-mode), hard to hit (extra natural ECM) but went SPLAT very easily (like 5 or 6 HP). No drones etc, just 1xPh-3/FA and 1xPh-3/FX.
One idea was instead of ECM, treat it as if cloaked (not hidden). That's probable a no-go, too.
If this is a no-go for current Alpha empires, perhaps for Omega or FRAX.....
Garth L. Getgen