I read an article today about the navy extending the service of some ships. How long can a navy ship be used before it is no longer serviceable?

Burt

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 04:04 pm: Edit

It's been a bad week for Ukraine. With the upcoming changes in the U.S. Presidency and Senate and the collapse of the German coalition government, it'll be interesting to see to what degree military and financial support continues.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 04:20 pm: Edit

The rule of thumb is that a warship is good for 30 years, some will last 35. Extension programs can push this to 50 years, and the USS Constitution is pushing 200 (but there probably aren't many boards left from the original after she was rebuilt five times). Some ships are just dogs and worthless after a few years. The litoral combat ships turned out to be useless regardless of how long they would last. I tried to buy one to outfit as a counter-whaling raider but Whale Wars outbid me.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 04:48 pm: Edit

With respect, Steve, I mentioned above Netanyahu's firing of Gallant; it was mid-day on Tuesday, Election Day, well before the first polls closed.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 05:10 pm: Edit

IIRC, there were a couple Essex class carriers which had been rebuilt several times that were in service as late as the 1990's.

Those were exceptions, though.

Other exceptions included some WWII era Destroyers which remained in service with friendly nations almost as long.

If my memory is faulty on this, please feel free to educate me.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Jessica: Indeed, but he knew which way the wind was blowing, as we all did.

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Friday, November 08, 2024 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Jeff,
The USS Phoenix CL-46 was placed into Argentinian hands in the 50s, sunk by the British in the 80s..

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, November 09, 2024 - 04:28 am: Edit

NON-POLITICAL FACT-BASED UPDATE: Nevada finally went for Trump, bringing him to 301. Arizona will probably fall to him, resulting in the widely predicted 312. Arizona fell to Trump Saturday night.

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Saturday, November 09, 2024 - 01:16 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

USS Constitution is pushing 200 (but there probably aren't many boards left from the original after she was rebuilt five times)

---

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, November 09, 2024 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Good call, Bolo; I had forgotten about her.

General Belgrano (I believe was her Argentine name) was about forty when she was sunk.

If Conqueror hadn't sunk her, would she still be in service?

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Saturday, November 09, 2024 - 05:55 pm: Edit

USS Constitution is 227 years old. While some parts have been replaced, I think part of the keel may still be intact. At one time modern engineers removed several of the braces, because they saw no need, shortly thereafter the ship started to hog, braces were replaced and she was fine. The navy actually maintains a forest in Indiana called Constitution Grove for wood for her.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Saturday, November 09, 2024 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Marks comment reminded me that there were also 50 other Brooklyn class sold to South American countries. 1 scrapped in 1974. 3 in the 1980s 2 two oher were stubborn in 1980 one sank on the way to the scrappers and in 1992 the last the Brooklyn also sank while being towed to the scrapper. The US also reted out/sold 3 of the Independence class CVLs, the last the Cabot operated with the Spanish navy until 1989, 46 years.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 13, 2024 - 04:18 pm: Edit

NON-POLITICAL FACT-BASED UPDATE: Only **I** can post items under this heading (or anything approximating the same claim of neutrality). Everyone else needs to steer clear of anything with a controversial or political slant.

Fox News Host Peter Hegseth has been picked as secretary of defense. He did combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan (and a tour in Guantanamo) and is an infantry officer currently holding the rank of major. He wrote a controversial book on the subject of wokeism and the military which seems to be how he came to the attention of Pres-Elect Trump. He graduated from Princeton and Harvard. He is praised by conservatives and condemned by liberals (par for the course as far as Trump apointees go).

I just deleted an item that was highly political and clearly intended to start a riot.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, November 13, 2024 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Allow me to set some guidelines:

THIS IS OKAY: John Doe has been picked by President-Elect Trump to be the new Secretary of General Affairs. He has been the CEO of the business consulting firm Excalibur.

THIS IS **NOT** OKAY: John Doe has been picked by President-Elect Trump to be the new Secretary of General Affairs. He has been the CEO of the business consulting firm Excalibur, where he is said by the Southern Poverty Law Center to have ruthlessly fired minorities and prevented women from being promoted above the assistant case manager rank. He reportedly holds the status of Auxiliary Dragon in the KKK and is said to be a member of White Supremacy Inc. and the Patriarchy Foundation. This guy doesn't belong in the USA let alone in the government.

The second example is clearly over the top and includes at least six reasons for deletion. The message I deleted included only one, but I wanted to give several examples of things that don't need to be said here.

By William Jockusch (Verybadcat) on Sunday, November 17, 2024 - 10:35 pm: Edit

According to a lot of news stories, Biden has given authorization to Ukraine to make long-range strikes against Russia.

Some of the stories say the authorization is "limited". I haven't seen one that says what the limits are.

Some stories connect the authorization to the arrival of North Korean troops to support Russia.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Sunday, November 17, 2024 - 11:01 pm: Edit

How much effect does Biden's authorization have at this point.

Ukraine is in a war of national survival, they'll presumably do whatever they think is best for their chances based on the current situation, regadless of US wishes.

So our only real leverage is based on promises or threats about our own future aid/actions. Biden no longer has much time to carry out any such reward or punishment unless either Trump or the EU has agreed with his policy and has let Ukraine know that they are backing it.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 05:21 am: Edit

If Ukraine does something a US president doesn't like, the US president might cut off or slow down munitions deliveries and cash aid.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 08:30 am: Edit

Note that a lot of stuff from countries other than the US have US Components, so require our approval.

The question is whether trump is going to negotiate a "peace deal" that requires Ukraine to surrender a lot of territory.

If that deal "freezes" forces a lot will depend on where the front line at that moment.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 10:18 am: Edit

>> I haven't seen one that says what the limits are

I had read that the use of longer range US weapons is limited to the Kursk area, where the Russian and NK forces are attempting to counterattack the Ukrainian incursion into Russia. It is not a general loosening of restrictions on hitting valid military targets in Russian, which is still largely restricted.

The Biden administration seems content to continue the strategy of escalating only to stalemate.

>> How much effect does Biden's authorization have at this point

It is hugely impactful and has been since the war began. Continued US supplies and weapons drive the tempo and scope of the entire war, as well as the prospects for meaningful Ukrainian advances and/or victory (or lack thereof).

--Mike

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 11:16 am: Edit

The bare bones outline of the deal with Ukraine is that Russia keeps Crimean, Luhansk, and Donetsk, Russia evacuates Zaparosche, and Ukraine evacuates Kursk. In Trump's view, Luhansk and Donetsk (and Crimea) were always Russian territory and Russia transferred them to Ukraine as a way of moving millions of Russians into Ukraine to be sure Ukraine stayed loyal. As such, in Trump's view, Ukraine isn't giving up anything that was legitimately Ukrainian territory.

As Don Rickles said, MAKE A DEAL DEAL.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Strange things happen, sometimes it is referred to as “unintended consequences“.

Back when Russia transferred Luhansk, Donetsk, there was indeed a largely Russian populace present.

Times change, things happen.

War has a tendency to create refugees, and a insurgency (Ukrainian, largely centered on Luhansk and Donetsk) had the result of large numbers of Russians leaving the region for Russia (less many military aged males who decided that fighting the Ukrainian forces was not a good idea.)

Several media sites have noted large population shifts (including but not limited to, Forbes, CNN and WSJ) away from the Luhansk, Donetsk area.

Russia traditionally agrees to a plebiscite election knowing that they can arrange who wins. The problem now, is if they held a plebiscite election, they might not win.

The irony is, even if Ukraine is forced into a peace treaty that cedes the territories back to Russia, the cost of the war in lost troops, tanks, aircraft and war stockpiles of ammunition, the damage to the Russian economy and continued enforcement of economic sanctions means that Putin appears weak.

Regardless of what Ukraine, the U.S. , U.K. , Nato etc decide, resolution may have to wait until Russia gets a new leader.

The real danger is, Putins replacement might be even worse than Putin.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Support: Putin Bans Free Medical Care
November 16, 2024: Vladimir Putin has ordered MSF or Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders to leave Russia. This is an unpopular decision with most Russians. MSF has worked in Russia since the 1990s, when the Soviet Union collapsed and its long ban on such international organizations was lifted. Putin’s ban of MSF is another revived Soviet era policy. Putin gave no reason for the ban, but he is in charge and MSF left. The Russians working with MSF are still operating in the medical programs MSF began or enhanced. Putin can now call all this progress Russian rather than the result of international cooperation.
Another thing Putin wanted to avoid is NGOs manipulating the media as part of their own private international diplomacy. The NGOs have become a powerful force in the diplomatic arena, developing and promoting their own foreign policy. This was obviously not the case in Russia, which is a highly organized nation that does need more help in delivering better medical care to more of its citizens.
--FYEO

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Information Warfare: Drones Bomb Moscow
November 16, 2024: The Russian government has tried to keep the reality of the war in Ukraine from the Russian people. Ukraine uses inexpensive drones to regularly remind Russians that there is a war going on and that Ukrainian forces can still reach deep inside Russia. In September Ukrainian drones attacked the Russian capital of Moscow. This attack came in at night, when it was more difficult to spot the drones flying low to avoid radar and visual identification. While many drones crashed or were shot down, there were so many that reached Moscow and attacked designated targets, as well as random ones, to cause many explosions that could be heard and fires that could be seen. This was an embarrassment for the government, who had denied numerous other drone attacks inside Russia.
Even Ukrainian drones shot down caused problems, like temporarily shutting down one of the four airports that serve Moscow and halting traffic on one of the major highways nearby. Crashing drones were often on fire and started fires wherever they fell. The firefighters had a busy night.
--FYEO

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Infantry: Hamas the Tunnel Masters
November 15, 2024: Hamas, a militant and aggressive Palestinian terrorist militia, has been around since the 1980s. Hamas is a perennial loser in its battles with Israel. One exception was the October 2023 surprise attack that had three thousand armed Hamas members leave their Gaza hiding places and attack unprepared Israelis. Over a thousand Israelis and foreigners in the area for a music festival were killed. This was the largest number of Jews killed in a single incident since the World War II Nazi German efforts to eradicate all Jews.
Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank were long-time rivals for Palestinian leadership. Neither was able to overcome the other and form a united Palestinian government. That changed with the October 2023 attack where Hamas took the initiative but failed to overcome Fatah’s nominal government in the West Bank.
How many Palestinians belong to Hamas has always been a guessing game. October 2023 confirmed that there were at least three thousand active Hamas members. The problem is that Hamas recruiting is very informal, and effective. Any Palestinian can walk into a known Hamas location, which can be a café or some retail establishment, announce their willingness to join Hamas and offer, if necessary, to fight and die for the cause. Hamas will often hand the new recruit a weapon. These are usually AK-47 assault rifles and RPG rocket launchers. Both of these weapons are regularly featured in Arab language movies, TV shows and propaganda films. By the time Palestinian children are teenagers, they know all about these weapons and how to use them. If there is a crisis, the Palestinians on the Hamas membership list go to a location and get their rifle or rocket launcher.
This enables Palestinian leaders to call up a large number of armed members on short notice. More organized operations, like the October 2023 attack, required a lot of planning. Many of these Palestinian gunmen had received some specialist training, just in case. Hamas leaders did their work and then used the standard Hamas mobilization system to quickly organize a force of armed Hamas members from the local Palestinian population. Many of the Palestinian gunmen for the October 2023 attacks were not aware of a major attack until they were called out by their Hamas leaders. Some Hamas fighters had been assigned to get vehicles to take down fences and get Hamas gunmen somewhere fast.
Hamas turned pre-planned improvisation into a formidable tactic that caused a lot of Israeli casualties but ultimately failed when the better trained, armed and led IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) showed up, The IDF quickly killed a lot of the Hamas irregulars and the October 2023 offensive faded away.
Surviving Hamas members back in Gaza spent more time in the tunnel network they had built during more than a decade effort. Hamas used foreign aid sent by the United States and other nations to build and then rebuild their tunnel system under Gaza. Years of effort has produced hundreds of kilometers of tunnels. Many of the tunnels were wired for electricity. Power was obtained from above ground generators or simply by plugging into home or commercial business supplies. Many Palestinians made a career of working in and on the tunnels.
When the IDF recently set out to destroy the tunnel system they were shocked at how extensive it was and how resistant it was to attack. In some tunnels there were blast doors to protect against the IDF use of explosives to reach a blocked portion of a tunnel. The Israelis were also surprised at the comfortable quarters for Hamas personnel and leaders. There were tunnels equipped as administrative offices and others were meeting rooms or offices for senior Hamas leaders.
The Israelis soon realized that there was a Hamas town and military installation under Gaza, The IDF is, as of late 2024, still fighting their way through the Hamas tunnel network under Gaza. IDF troops were trained for house to house fighting and had to adapt those tactics for the underground battles in the tunnels.
--FYEO

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, November 18, 2024 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Naval Air: Modifying Japanese Carriers
November 15, 2024: For over a year U.S. Marine Corps F-35B vertical takeoff (VTOL) fighters have operated from one of the two new Japanese aircraft carriers to test their flight decks for heat resistance to the F-35 B's engines. The two Japanese carriers are called helicopter destroyers that look like small aircraft carriers, which is what they actually are. The post-World War II Japanese constitution prohibits Japan from having aircraft carriers but the helicopter destroyers were modified to use the F-35B stealth fighter. Japan has 42 F-35Bs on order, thus the need for American F-35Bs to test the ability of the Japanese carriers to handle this aircraft. The U.S. Navy has modified several Marine Corps assault carrier-type ships to handle F-35Bs. These ships are also receiving, by 2025, new smaller vessels to put soldiers ashore.
Japan is making a big investment in F-35s operating from land and seagoing bases. Land bases are no problem but since 2017 Japan has had two 27,000 ton Izumo class DDH type ships, called destroyers, operational. These ships look exactly like an aircraft carrier. These Izumo class ships can carry up to 28 helicopters or up to twelve F-35Bs. The carriers are armed only with two 20mm Phalanx anti-missile cannons and launchers with sixteen ESSM missiles for anti-missile defense. The DDH have powerful engines capable of destroyer-like speeds of over fifty-four kilometers an hour. There are also more medical facilities than one would expect for a ship of this size. Izumo does have considerable cargo capacity, which is intended for moving disaster relief supplies quickly to where they are needed. Some of these cargo spaces can be converted to berthing spaces for troops, disaster relief personnel, or people rescued from disasters, as well as additional weapons and equipment needed to support F-35B fighter-bombers.
Izumo can carry and operate F-35Bs because modifications were made to the flight deck to handle the extremely high temperatures the F-35B generates when taking off or landing vertically, like a helicopter. When the first DDH entered service in 2015 Japan made no mention of buying F-35Bs or modifying the LPH flight decks to handle the F-35B. The Izumos already have an elevator (to the hangar deck under the flight deck) powerful enough to carry an F-35B fighter as well as the lighter helicopters. Japan also has two older, smaller 19,000-ton Hyuga-class helicopter carriers that could be upgraded to carry and use a smaller number of F-35Bs but currently just operate 18 helicopters each.
--FYEO