Archive through June 03, 2025
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Non-Game Discussions: Real-World Military:
Archive through June 03, 2025
Recent article reported that USMC was issuing shotguns to squad level for individual marines anti drone defense.
Guess the idea is one drone, one shotgun round.
Problem solved.
Jga: the bit about NASA spending a bundle to develop the Fisher Space Pen is an urban legend. They started to try to develop something along those lines, but when it became apparent that it was going to be prohibitively expensive, they went back to pencils.
Paul Fisher developed the thing on his own hook, and it cost him a cool million to do so. After he did, both NASA and the Soviet space program eventually wound up buying them.
The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed more than 40 Russian planes, mostly bombers. If true, this is a disaster for the Russian air force. The Russians are claiming only minor damage to a few planes. The truth? Who knows?
Two claimed kills by Patriot and S-200 SAM, plus now one destroyed by a drone strike. That is THREE destroyed AWACS, not counting two-three claims that have not been verified. Not bad for an underdog.
Not all of the original ten were serviceable and keeping the ones they have left running hasn’t been easy. At any given time two or three are out of service.
Simple arithmetic, is if at any given time two to three aircraft out of service means that the Russians needed enough specialists to man either seven or eight A-50 aircraft at any given time.
The loss of one aircraft and a complete aircrew reduces the available aircraft with crew to either six or seven.
That means, if the Russians manage to return one of the “hanger queens” back to available for service (particularly difficult given the current sanctions…) they still need a replacement crew for the flight deck, as well as a full team of 10 or 11 specialists.
If reports of earlier A-50 shoot downs are correct, the Russians might not even have enough personnel to fully staff the aircraft available.
Many more setbacks for the Russians, could mean a more aggressive Ukrainian war effort.
There have been reports of drone strikes ranging up to 1,700 to over 2,000 kilometers from the front. You have to wonder if there are any advisors to Putin with the courage to tell the truth about actual conditions on the front lines.
Anti-Drone Weapons
I don't know how far the average shotgun fires, but whats the easist way to get a slighlier longer range - as I am guessing it's lethality is less than 20 metres due to the spread of pellets?
Would the old 40 mm underlslung Grenade launchers be better (or indeed a seperate weapon??)?
WOuld it get enough pellets to go say 40 metres, to mission kill a small drone?
(Is 30 to 40 metres range reasonable - the smaller drones might fly slightly lower, but once you take into account the horizontal distance, 40 metres range is probably needed??)
Quick research on Trap....
Normal target range is 50 yds....
In Skeet max is around 26 yds....
Duck hunting research for max affect is
30 to 40 yards....
This is why we fly our mapping drones at 350 feet AGL. They are out of shotgun range...
IMO, the single greatest surprise stemming from the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just how darn effective anti-personnel (and anti-armor) drones would be. I would not envy anyone trying to shoot down an FPS drone with a small explosive payload (grenade-sized) that is travelling in excess of 100+ mph. Compound this with the fact that you have to constantly scan the skies for these banshees because while the noise might or might not alert you in time that one (or dozens) are around, you would only have a few seconds at best, and likely less, to locate, track, and engage the drone before it rams you. And hopefully you have your shotgun in hand, because if you have to switch from an assault rifle to the shotgun in that few seconds before it hits you... I just don't think it's as easy to defend from drones as some of you think. You just have to be inattentive once,or looking in the wrong direction (like at the enemy troops in front of you) just one time. You might be a great shot with a shotgun, but being in combat with all the other lethal distractions will not help your accuracy. And FPS drones with skilled operators don't miss. Additionally, a lot of them are now fiber-guided, so no using microwave or RF tricks to knock them down. Best way to take out the drones is to take out the operators. Find the nest and get rid of the operators. Because if you don't, and you manage to shoot down the incoming drone, they will just send another, and another and...
Latest stats imply that drones are now responsible for over 80% of Russian casualties every day, (not from armor, not from artillery, and not from good old lead slugs, over 1000 drone casualties on one recent day). You can bet that they are also trying shotguns. They may not be as good a shot as a US Marine would be, but combat can/will weed out the bad shots quickly. So you would think that the casualty rate from anti-personnel drones would be going down instead of increasing. But as fast as Ukraine is improving its drones and pumping them out...
The only respite you might have is at night, as I don't think that the small anti-personnel drones have night vision capabilities. At least, not yet. But they will eventually, and probably sooner rather than later. The recon drones do have that capability though, and are probably marking your bed-down location for some early morning "recreational" activity.
The drone attacks on Russian air bases were not long range drones fired from Ukraine but short-range drones fired from cargo containers with pop-off roofs that had been shipped into Russia by routes unknown. The attack reportedly wiped out a third of Russia's strategic bomber force.
The horrific attack in Boulder could have been worse; the terrorist had a dozen or more Molotov cocktails on his person but did not get to use them. He is fully cooperating with investigators and bragging about his actions, claiming he would do it again and was only sorry more Jews did not die. The Feds have charged him with a hate crime that could result in life in prison without parole.
I've got some personal experience actually shooting down drones with shotguns.
I have a group of friends who I regularly go shooting with out in the desert. On two occasions, we messed around with seeing who could shoot down the most. Over two events, we brought 12 cheap 15 dollar drones off AliExpress.
In my case, I was able to get three hits on flying drones total with only two shot down during both sessions. I believe the other guys all took about the same number of shots as I did. I found it incredibly difficult to reliably hit them past about 30 yards (about 27.5 meters). IIRC, I took a total of 8 shots on them. First two hits were about 25 yards or less. My third shot was about 30 yards and wasn't enough to take it down with only a couple pellet strikes on the body shell with no penetration. All shots I fired were #6 buckshot.
All of us (8 guys) were using various loads of different sized buckshot & power with a couple of them using #7 & #8 birdshot respectively. A couple of our group tied me with two kills and one guy getting three kills. And all of us are experienced trap/skeet shooters so it goes to show how tough it can be unless the drones are moving very close and/or slowly.
Someone recently posted above that the USMC was being issued #4 buckshot as the most effective at taking down drones. However, I would still believe getting hits that damage blades, a motor, control chip or something else sufficient enough to take it down is much more difficult to say than do. At least at longer distances.
As a happy added effect of Ukraine's spectacular attacks over the weekend, Russia has become what may best be described as "truck-o-phobic." In a desperate effort to avoid a follow-on by the same methodology of hauling drones close to their targets in semis, Russian security forces have set up an unreal number of checkpoints, wherein they're checking the cargo of each and every truck.
Every Russian cargo truck is a potential threat. Every driver is a suspect. As a result, Russian authorities are being forced to:
- Divert resources to inspect and monitor domestic transport routes;
- Increase surveillance and internal security across tens of thousands of kilometers of highways;
- Slow down military and civilian logistics nationwide; and
- Mistrust their own citizens – especially private drivers and contractors – fueling paranoia and bottlenecks
As a result, their logistics chains have slowed to a crawl.
Growing up shooting Dove, one main point is estimating speed....
No, they don't all fly at the same speed....
That was one item mentioned on the page about Duck hunting....
Rusman,
One item you didn't address, what Choke rate were you using.... These days you can put adjustable chokes on them...
Another item, what length barrel.....
Quote:By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Monday, June 02, 2025 - 05:55 pm: Edit
Growing up shooting Dove, one main point is estimating speed....
No, they don't all fly at the same speed....
That was one item mentioned on the page about Duck hunting....
Rusman,
One item you didn't address, what Choke rate were you using.... These days you can put adjustable chokes on them...
Another item, what length barrel.....
Funny you should ask. With all the Russian talk, here were my eight shots on the drones in question (one of them a Russian gun)...
Shot 1 MISS: Russian Saiga-12, 19 inch Bbl, Modified choke.
Shot 2 MISS: Russian Saiga-12, 19 inch Bbl, Modified choke.
Shot 3 MISS: Russian Saiga-12, 19 inch Bbl, Modified choke.
Shot 4 KILL: Russian Saiga-12, 19 inch Bbl, Modified choke.
Shot 5 MISS: Mosburg-500 Flex, 22 inch Bbl, Modified choke
Shot 6 MISS: Mosburg-500 Flex, 22 inch Bbl, Modified choke
Shot 7 KILL: Mosburg-500 Flex, 22 inch Bbl, Modified choke
Shot 8 Hit, no kill: Mosburg-500 Flex, 22 inch Bbl, Modified choke
All of my shots were 1oz #6 shot, High brass loads (don't remember the FPS)
All of us took eight shots each. some had similar loads & gun configurations but remember for certain what theirs was.
If drones were the individuals main objective,
I would equip them with 10 gauge.....
One model of 12 gauge I might look at on the market, is a pump with dual ammo tubes..... can load each one with preferred ammo, just a switch to pick which shell you want.... Holds 14, 2 3/4 shells
More than a year ago, it was reported that the two aircraft carriers of the U.K. Royal Navy had a series of mechanical issues, serious enough to miss several deployments for NATO and a port visit to the U.S.
Turns out, after investigation , which was completed a couple of months ago, but I hadn’t been aware of the results, that the propellers components were not installed correctly.
The issue has been rectified, both ships in the Queen Elizabeth class were damaged and out of service for a period of months.
good that they got fixed, but there seems like a quality control issue.
Ukraine hit the Crimea bridge with underwater munitions, causing some damage but it is not clear if traffic was interrupted. Ukraine said this attack used a new weapon.
At nearly the same time, Ukrainian drones hit power lines through Russian-occupied territory, cutting off electricity to Crimea. This left 700,000 people in Crimea without electricity.
Sounds like both sides are ramping up their offensives (general Russian advance v Ukrainians hitting Russia in more unusuals ways) to get concenssions at the Istanbul Peace Talks?
Weird the closer we we get to peace, boths sides get better at fighting.
If you are going to use shotguns against drones, some sort of flechette might be better than buckshot. The superior ballistic coefficient should, theoretically, provide a longer effective range and a more consistent pattern.
Light pellets, #8 or lighter, should ensure an Operation Kill, by hitting the blades....
Just need enough to cause a vibration and it should come down....
For scout drones, shouldn't take a heavier pellet to destroy the camera, effectively operationally killing it.....
There are cases, even videos taken from drones themselves of guy in his backyard downing them....
In the '70s, watched RC planes dogfight, cutting ribbons trained behind with the props....
Instead of ribbons, trail a lightweight wire, which would separate from the RC, if you manage to drag into the prop of a drone....
The Kertch Bridge seems to have been weakened. One wonders if this was a frogman situation, why did the Ukrainians use a LOT more explosives?
Great info, Robert. Sounds like it was fairly difficult to hit them. I'm assuming that they were not coming directly at you, which I would think would give you a better angle to shoot them. So that might have upped your percentage chances of... not dying. 
After a bit of research, I see that I overstated the speed of the Ukrainian FPV drones being used in the Antipersonnel role. They vary in speed, anywhere from 40 mph, up to 75 mph. But they are constantly being improved speed and payload-wise. Soo 100+ mph FPV drones are coming. And even at 40 mph, coming at you from behind, your chances are (considering the SFB theme) less than stellar.
The recon drones operate out of shotgun range. Best use a sniper against them. Or other drones in an anti-drone role, as the Ukrainians (and now Russia) are doing.