Archive through February 28, 2026
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Non-Game Discussions: Real-World Military:
Archive through February 28, 2026
Not nonsense, Alan. Transit through the canal is one thing.
Allowing ships to actually get to the ocean is another.
You are assuming that passage through the canal would be guaranteed.
If China goes to war over Taiwan, closing the choke points would greatly assist the Chinese.
China would have a great advantage if they could close the canal even if only for a few weeks or months.
A quick google inquiry resulted in:
Quote:” the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) has deployed uniformed soldiers to several foreign sea ports, primarily through its official overseas military base and expanding network of "dual-use" facilities.
The PLA’s uniformed presence in foreign ports currently includes:
Djibouti (People's Liberation Army Support Base): This is China's only officially acknowledged overseas military base, established in 2017. It is a permanent deployment of thousands of uniformed personnel, including marines, to support counter-piracy and logistics.
Cambodia (Ream Naval Base): Since late 2023, Chinese warships and uniformed personnel have maintained a persistent, rotational presence at this facility, which was expanded with Chinese funding. While officially under Cambodian control, analysts describe it as a de facto Chinese military outpost.
Tajikistan: Although not a sea port, the PLA has a confirmed presence of uniformed troops at a base in the Gorno-Badakhshan region to monitor the border with Afghanistan.
International Port Calls: The PLA Navy regularly conducts port visits in regions like Southeast Asia, Africa, and the Middle East where uniformed sailors disembark for diplomatic and training purposes.
United Nations Peacekeeping: Uniformed PLA soldiers and paramilitary People's Armed Police are frequently deployed through foreign ports to support missions in countries like South Sudan, Mali, and Lebanon.
The Jamestown Foundation
The Jamestown Foundation
+9
Beyond these official deployments, China has invested in over 90 foreign ports worldwide through state-owned enterprises like COSCO Shipping, which U.S. intelligence suggests are being prepared for potential future military use in locations such as the UAE, Pakistan, and Equatorial Guinea.
Council on Foreign Relations
Council on Foreign Relations
+2
These resources examine the PLA's involvement in foreign ports, from official military bases to rotational ship calls and peacekeeping operations.”
Google AI, some information may be in error.
Quote:Not nonsense, Alan. Transit through the canal is one thing.
Allowing ships to actually get to the ocean is another.
You are assuming that passage through the canal would be guaranteed.
Jeff, I at least have seen both Balboa and Cristobal ports with my own eyes, and neither of those facilities blocks access to the canal. Even if China still controlled both terminals, they could prevent ships from transiting the canal only by committing an act of war that would invite retaliation against China itself, as well as U.S. seizure of the the port terminals, if China still controlled them. China does not currently have anything like the capability to hold anything so close to CONUS if we decided to seize it.
The only way they could close the canal for any significant length of time would be to destroy the Gatun or Miraflores Locks. But if they are willing to go that far, they wouldn't need to control either terminal at all. They would most likely use missiles fired from ships or submarines.
Or let me ask you something. HOW would China, assuming they still controlled either Balboa or Cristobal, actually prevent ships from transiting, assuming they didn't want to actually go to war with the U.S. in a location that, unlike Taiwan, is drastically easier for us to support?
I have a rather low opinion of President Trump, however; this is a win.
As to the terminals, they could be used to attack the locks with containerized cruise missiles, or PRC special forces making an attack. Not that this couldn't be done with careful planning and a container ship.
Edit;
I would expect this as part of an attack on Taiwan, or similar incident.
Adm,
It may be a win but I still think it's a rather minor one. Yes, the Chinese could launch missies from the terminals, as you say. But depriving them of the terminals does not prevent them from launching missiles from ships.
This particular discussion started when I responded to Jeff's statement that:
Quote:Bottom line, he wanted Chinese communist party control of the canal stopped.
I claimed, and still stand by the claim, that the Chinese never had "control of the canal". The terminals don't serve that function.
You guys need to chill.
So...we've had another military laser firing at the border, this time some fifty miles from El Paso, near Ft. Hancock.
What did they hit? A Customs and Border Protection drone, mistaken for "a seemingly threatening unmanned aerial system operating within military airspace," per yesterday's joint statement from the FAA, CBP and Pentagon.
IFF is a problem for any military...
Any and all ships transiting the Panama Canal are, for the duration of their transit, under Panamanian authority.
They are also REQUIRED to have an official Panamanian pilot aboard.
IF the PRC has control over the Canal, then they can keep Panamanian pilots from transferring to ships of a certain nationality, thus preventing their passage.
They can claim, "Oh, we have a shortage of Canal Pilots and there isn't one available for you at this time. Please wait until we have one available," and who can PROVE it's cattle fritters?
Jeff (Anderson):
You say:
Quote:IF the PRC has control over the Canal, then they can keep Panamanian pilots from transferring to ships of a certain nationality, thus preventing their passage.
But the whole point is that the PRC did not have control of the canal, and no real prospect that it was going to acquire control.
SVC:
I hope my reply to Jeff Anderson was sufficiently "chill". My apologies if it was not.
Alan?
Between us, I do draw comfort from the confidence you have in your assertion that the PRC is SOL on that issue, but respectfully, my paranoia leaves me with doubt...
(In short, if we have any sort of disagreement, it's on me, not you; I'm "Chill" with you. 
)
Still, since my paranoia DOES leave me with doubt, I certainly hope we DON'T see the Canal Zone Authorities "Have trouble finding pilots" for ships flying flags of nations for whom the PRC/CCP is hostile. If we don't, I may be less paranoid, but it won't go away 100%
On the other hand, if we DO see that sort of... Problem... I may invest in a tin foil hat...
For what it's worth? The Hong Kong-based company controlled those ports from 1997 until this year, and there have been no reports of a lack of pilots for U.S.-flagged or allied shipping through the canal. What delays there have been for the past few years have been due to low water levels in the canal's natural reservoirs, which have affected all shipping regardless of flag.
Quick Google inquiry resulted in the following. Primary cause of low water levels in fresh water lakes in Panama is said to be climate changes, el nino, but other factors include:
Some Key factors causing the water crisis:
Increased Demand: The lakes serve a dual purpose: operating the canal and providing drinking water for half of Panama's population. Population growth has increased demand on this limited, seasonal resource.
Deforestation and Siltation: Deforestation in the surrounding watershed has increased erosion, leading to silt filling the lakes, which reduces their capacity to hold water.
Infrastructure and Management: While not purely incompetence, the lack of timely investment in new reservoirs (such as the Rio Indo project) and aging, leaky infrastructure have made the system vulnerable to climate volatility.
World Weather Attribution
World Weather Attribution
+5
The Panama Canal Authority has been forced to restrict ship, weight, and transit numbers to conserve the remaining water.
As always, the Google AI may not be entirely accurate.
Y.M.M.V.
Israeli jets have bombed targets in Iran. No details yet.
This has been said to be a US-Israeli joint operation and it was just confirmed at 1:02am central that US forces were involved. There is a Hugh column of smoke in Tehran but no news coverage of other sites in Iran.
Israel did, at least half an hour ago, tell citizens to stay close to bomb shelters.
Iran has hundreds, perhaps thousands, of missiles able to hit Israel or US bases in the region.
Israel has called the attack Operation Shield of Judea.
The US says this is the first of a long series of attacks. A dozen targets in Tehran were hit. Analysts think Tomahawk missiles were used. The Busher reactor was hit.
Operation Epic Fury included attacks by missiles and aircraft on over thirty targets. This is to include several days of bombardment.
Iranian Ballistic missiles are now striking Israel.
WE ARE AT WAR WITH IRAN. Trump called for the Iranian people to overthrow their government, warning them to not miss this, their only chance. Trump said the strikes will obliterate the Iranian missile industry and Navy. Trump said that the Iranian military, Republican guards, and police must surrender or they will be killed. If they surrender, they will not be prosecuted. US and Israeli strikes targeted the Iranian president, ayatollah, and senior generals. It is unclear if any were killed. US C-17s are delivering anti-missiles. More strikes are targeting missile storage and launch sites.
Israel is doing the attacks on Iranian leaders. Attacks included the Iranian parliament. The Iranian aerospace research center was destroyed. Iran is attacking US airbases across the region. Iranian missiles have hit US bases in several countries, notably excepting Oman. There are no reports of B2 bombers involved. These initial attacks were, unusually, done during daylight. The rebuilt Iranian air defense ststem has been severely degraded. Massive cyber attacks have been launched by the US.
The Ayatollah’s compound has been flattened. It is unclear where he was but his recent habit has been days in the compound and nights at rotating hideouts.
The first small demonstrations have happened in Iran with students cheering nearby air strikes. Gold is up $100 since midnight, now $5292. Silver $94.50 which is up $6 since midnight.
I have been watching Fox for an hour since I woke up without seeing a single commercial.