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Weird Damage Allocation Question
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4478
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then look at the last two sentences of (3D3d) Skipped Points:
"...For example, let's say you had to resolve 13 points. You roll a die forthe damage alloscation row but one of the systems on that row is a "skip". Instead of scoring the first three items on the second selected chart, you would now have to score 4 so that the total is 13."

That pretty much spells out the process in black and white, both clearly and concisely.
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you took that a little out of context. The total score was 13 points of damage. During the first 10 points of damage, there was a skip. The skipped point pools with the 3 points leftover for 4 points of damage to be allocated.

I do not dispute this. What I dispute is whether there are clear instrucitons for what to do should there be a skip during that last 4 points of damage.
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Dal Downing
Commander


Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 556
Location: Western Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok lets look at this one more way. Eblack you problem seems to be the line about adding it to the last group of 10.

Lets say you have to allocate 17 points of Damage. You roll a die consult the Chart and run those 10 hits out with out producing a skip. So Far so good. Now you roll another die to generate a fresh row on the DAC to score your last 7 points on. Third hit into this chart you hit a 'Skip" because you did not have the Primary or Alternate Hit Locations to take. That point is then added to the last group of 10 which is the group of 7 you are already resolving so it adds on to the end of this allocation chart which means you will take 8 hit instead of 7.

Now using the example above you produce a Skip in the First 10 allocated points that point is carried over to the last group of 10 which is the 7(Now 8 ) points you have to allocate so no major problems. But during the run through the 8 hits you have to allocate you produce 3 more skips. Those 3 skips are added to the last group of ten which is the 8 points you are currently allocating so that fills in the 9th and 10th columbs on the DAC and leaves one point in a new group of 10 to be resolved with a new roll for a new row.
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that is the clarity I am looking for. I think if Dal's example (or similar) of where less than 10 damage is scored and one is skipped and how to resolve that skipped point is added in the rulebook, any chance of confusion would be avoided.

To me, the line of "end of the procedure" suggests that the current batch of points you are working on are not at the end of the procedure, but rather, in the middle since the procedure is the entirity of 3D. So it seems that the skipped points should start a new batch of 10.
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Requete
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Leander, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eblack wrote:

I do not dispute this. What I dispute is whether there are clear instrucitons for what to do should there be a skip during that last 4 points of damage.


eblack, I appreciate your 'skeptical' stance here, because it can only help to ultimately improve the quality of the rules verbiage. Especially since FedCom can attract many new players, but the gurus of FedCom are often "old hands". So to try to look at the rules with "new eyes" is a great thing.

I think the key here is 3D3c:
"The owning player will continue marking damage until he reaches the end of the selected Damage Allocation Chart (which will mean ten points have been allocated unless some cells are skipped) or until all Damage Points have been allocated."

That stipulates that you cannot 'stop' your 'movement' along the DAC until one of two conditions are fulfilled:
(1) you reach the end of the DAC, or
(2) all the damage has been allocated

Now, the problem is that rules could be clearer on this point, and that rule 3D3d is worded such that "skips" within blocks of 10 are being addressed. It is not worded as if skips are taking place within blocks of less than 10, though obviously they happen all the time against damaged vessels.
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eblack
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I get home I will look at the rulebook again. I am about ready to concede there may be enough information to come to the correct conclusion. I think it is the "unless some cells have been skipped" which gets me to believe that you do not have to go to the end of the DAC line.

But you are right Requete, it is the new player I am concerned about and simply clarity in the rules by explaination.
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pmiller13
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The clarifying rule is (3D3d). The last full sentence reads 'The skipped points do not (necessarily) start a new die roll.' Now what this means when you have less than 10 points of damage is that if you have say 8 damage to allocate and you get 2 skips then no big deal they just get tacked on to the end of the current roll without needing to roll for those 2 points. Now if you had say 8 damage to do and you had 3 skips then 2 of those points fill out the current chart and you still have 1 point left over so now you have to roll again for a new chart.

However you are right in that no where does it specifically say 'apply any skipped points to the end of your current roll until you hit then end of the current chart'
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mojo jojo
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 340

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, my version 4 rulebook doesn't say that 'The skipped points do not (necessarily) start a new die roll.'

That line must have been added to the version 5 rulebook.
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