Archive through September 23, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module RM81 Tholian Home Galaxy:
M81 Galaxy - The Nebuline:
Archive through September 23, 2022
Before I go any further, I should make clear that this thread is by no means intended to infringe on ADB's and Loren Knight's prerogatives as regards the future development of the M81 Galaxy as a Star Fleet Universe setting. Rather, it is intended as a "clearing house" and place of discussion for data which currently exists in print, or which might appear in future published works.
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The existence of the Nebuline was first noted in the Pirates of M81 Galaxy article in Captain's Log #41, as part of the background provided for the High Pirate Bands (the "Old Galaxy Pirates" previewed for both Star Fleet Battles and Federation Commander in Captain's Log #40). The Nebuline have since been name-dropped in the greatly-expanded data on the Tholian Will provided by the Tholian Master Starship Book; as well as in the writeup posted to the Shapeways storefront for the Old Galaxy Raider miniature, which is available in both 1:3788 scale and in 1:3125 scale.
As the name suggests, the Nebuline had established colonies within various active nebulae across the M81 galaxy. They were one of the three primary enemies fought by the Tholians in the Great Martial War, a conflict fought during the Tholian rise to galactic dominance. While the Nebuline were swept from open space by the end of the Great Martial War, a number of their home colonies remained unconquered. This was partly due to the issues that Tholians (and their various "enforcer species", such as the Seltorians) face when fighting inside a nebula, not least of which being the inability to use most web functions (or shield crackers, for that matter) while fighting in nebular terrain. It's also noted that "key Nebuline technology" provides them with "a serious advantage in combat", though exactly what this entails has yet to be published.
As a side note, they would not be the only faction in known space to take advantage of "home" terrain rules; a good example of this is the Qixa Amalgamate of the Omega Octant, whose ships and weapons are designed to maximize their advantage when fighting inside the volatile Qixavalor Cloud.
Despite the relative security provided by their home nebulae, the holdout Nebuline colonies still required certain resources that could only be acquired from sites in "open" space. Thus, they adapted certain as-yet-unpublished "wingless" designs used in their defence forces to create "winged" hulls intended for use as raiders. (The oversized port wings on these raiders allow them to dock with captured freighters and then carry them off in their entirety.) Later on, when they made contact with various Low Pirate Bands, comprised of renegades and escapees from various subjugated species, they would sell "export" models of their "winged" raider ships (with key Nebuline technology removed), thus creating the first High Pirate Bands.
In a sense, the comparison between the OGR and OGD SSDs (and Ship Cards) in CL40 and their as-yet-unpublished Nebuline counterparts would be the reverse of that between the Orion Pirate and WYN-Orion variations in the Alpha Octant. As in, imagine if the WYNs were the ones to build the "Orion Pirate" type hulls for their own use, keeping features such as engine doubling for themselves when exporting "WYN-Orion" type hulls to the various pirate cartels. Note that the "export" OGR and OGD are no better at fighting in a nebula than any other non-Nebuline ships.
While the Tholians had attempted to "clear out" the occasional nebula during the era of the Tholian Will, at least some of the Nebuline colonies remained in place by the time of the Revolt and the rise of the Seltorian Suzerainty. It remains to be seen what the post-Revolt era might have in store for them in the medium to long term.
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So, that would leave a number of ways in which the Nebuline could be further expanded upon.
Should there be a clearer sense of how their "key Nebuline technology" works, one option could perhaps be to consider what the Nebuline-operated versions of the OGR and OGD look like. Would they retain the use of phaser-1/2/3s, particle cannons, and/or shield crackers for their own purposes, or instead use some other unique weapon types we have yet to see rules for? For that matter, would they (and the High Pirate Bands they support) eventually acquire web breaker technology? And in miniature terms, would the pre-exsting Shapeways OGR - plus any would-be OGD mini that could perhaps one day be added to Shapeways in the future - work more or less "as-is" to account for the Nebuline-operated raider types?
It would also be interesting to see what their "wingless" naval units look like. Be it to allow for battles fought during the Great Martial War, but also to provide for scenarios in which the Tholians (and/or one of their "enforcer species") launch an attack on an occupied nebula.
As another side note, the Qixa have their own distinction between warships and weapon types intended solely for use in the defence of the Qixavalor Cloud and those sent on trading missions outside of the Cloud. For example, most ultrawarp missile warheads are designed to trigger reactions with the volatile gases in the Cloud upon impact; whereas the "brick" UWM warhead triggers no such reaction, being designed solely for use in open space.
In addition, while it remains to be seen what kind of bases and support units the Nebuline themselves make use of, the data in the Tholian Master Starship Book details what kind of auxiliary units and fixed installations the Nebuline (and the High Pirate Bands) might expect to face when launching raids against convoys and colonies occupied by the subjugated species - or, perhaps, to show what kind of rebels their forces might operate in support of.
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So, does anyone here find the Nebuline to be worth expanding upon further - and, if so, how would you like to see things proceed for them going forward?
We pretty much have all the M81 Seltorian and Tholian ships published (or about to be any day now), so developing the Nebuline would and High Pirates would be a concise way to allow for much more M81 play outside of the Revolt and Rebel Reduction scenarios. I'm toally onboard with seeing more.
The pending launch of Module R4T would certainly provide more material for players to make use of out in M81, if the data in the Tholian Master Starship Book is anything to go by. Although there are a few Tholian unit types which remain to be looked at in the future, not least the Draco-Tholian survey ship Sojourner - which reportedly entered service in the years immediately prior to the Revolt.
Plus, there is a proposed Seltorian pre-Revolt siege variant elsewhere on the BBS; such a unit might be useful if making an attempt to "clear out" a given Nebuline colony.
Actually, I wonder what a would-be "Seltorian Master Starship Book" might have to add, in terms of further enabling M81 to function as a viable game setting.
The Nenuline are PIRATES, not a fleet in being. Not a real challenge to the Tholian Will, but an annoyance. If they were a fleet in being, the Tholians would have had a front line and directed their forces to destroy the nebuline. As it was, they directed their "most trusted subjects" to deal with the problem. Their most trusted subjects allowed the neubine to corrupt them, and were exterminated by the will for such. The Seltoians could not be corrupted, so it is probable that the Nebuline were slowly being rooted out and destroyed by the Seltorians before they invented the web breaker.
SPP:
It's noted that the "wingless" ships (from which the "winged" raider hulls were derived) had fought in the Great Martial War. Which I suppose still leaves the question: had the "pre-conquest" Nebuline held territory in open space, using those ships to try and defend it? Or did they act in more of an enabling role, providing support to other empires fighting the Tholians in that war in exchange for various raw materials and other resources, while keeping the bulk of their own fleet "at home" in their various occupied nebulae? Or perhaps the truth sat somewhere in between, with the Nebuline holding parts of open space in some areas, while working in support of other empires elsewhere?
Not that I'm expecting answers to such questions any time soon, but it would be interesting to see what the "pre-conquest" history of M81 might one day have to say on this topic.
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So far as the Seltorians are concerned, perhaps the Nebuline might find common cause with the growing cadre of "rebel" Seltorians (i.e. those born without the "loyalty gene"). Or, at least, the Nebuline might provide a more discreet means of contact between scattered "rebel" cells, in exchange for valuable "tip-offs" in terms of where and when the next major anti-Nebuline campaign was due to take place. Or perhaps certain high-placed "rebel" Seltorians might file a certain nebula or two as "unoccupied", diverting attention elsewhere - say, towards a nebula that turned out not to have a Nebuline colony present.
Perhaps, in the immediate run-up to the Revolt, the "rebel" Seltorians offered the Nebuline a deal: enable the spread of web breaker technology without the Tholians realizing what was going on, in exchange for a (limited) moratorium on Seltorian campaigns against the surviving Nebuline colonies once the Tholians are overthrown.
Thus, by the time the moratorium was lifted, the Nebuline would have had a chance to take stock and determine their response to the "new normal" of the post-Revolt era, whatever that might be.
This sounds like a good project for Gary to work up.
Which weapons are most effective in a Nebula? (I'm thinking Alpha Octant, I'm not that familiar with Omega).
Gary, if you want someone to at least bounce ideas off of, I'd be happy to lead an ear.
Douglas, the most significant effects of a nebula (P6.0) is that everything in it gains 9 points of ECM, shields only operate at minimum levels, drones take 1/4 point of "phaser" damage per hex and plasma torpedoes 1 point per hex. Other than the last, they don't have specific interactions with specific weapons (though many weapon-like items such as mines and ESG's just don't work).
Which means the best weapons are those less sensitive to die-roll shifts - Omega quantum phasers would be one of the best in this case.
For the Nebuline to have a significant enough advantage in a nebula, they will need defenses beyond just shields and offense that's not as degraded - that could be as easy as they ignore at least some of the ECM penalty while using much the same weapons (but then the question will be why they can but not others) or have their own unique ones. I'll have to poke at the few SSDs we have and related to refresh myself on what we have so far.
Which brings up an important question for SVC and Gary to work on: how much scope will Gary have to create things and modify/tweak existing background (based on the newlest tranlastions of the cource tapes).
Possible Weapons:
A Mauler could be an effective weapon in a Nebula. Even with a net ECM shift of 3 there is only a 1 in 6 chance that it would miss and I don't believe there is any degradation in the damage scored.
The mauler batteries would also be handy for quickly reinforcing shields. The limits on specific and general reinforcement in a Nebula are based on a given point in time. So you can add points as they are used.
Anti-Drones are immune to ECM effects so something similar to the "Heavy RALAD" proposed by SVC back in August could be an effective weapon (Heavy RALADs were only carried by fighters but perhaps the Nebuline figured out how to make it work from a ship-based launcher).
Defenses:
Maybe the Nebuline can buy general shield reinforcement on a 1:1 basis.
The Nebuline may have some sort of maneuver advantage similar to the effects of a Legendary Navigator allowing them to ignore the random movement effects of Nebula. Better yet, maybe they can choose whether or not to use the random move (which might allow them to pull off an unexpected manuever).
Don't forget that armor works though there may be a MF penalty is too much is used (it's also 360 unless there's enough to cover different arcs ...
The Nebuline background mentions that their “wingless” hulls were used defensively to fend off incursions by the forces of the Will while the “winged” hulls were used for raiding.
If the wingless hulls were limited to local defense, they may have lacked some of the systems were are accustomed to seeing on starships (transporters, tractor beams, shuttles) since these systems are inoperable in Nebula. Labs and probes might be reduced as well since they work at reduced efficiency in Nebula and there may have been limited opportunity for their use. The reduction or lack of these systems might have an interesting effect on damage allocation.
Regarding the “winged” raider vessels: Given the Seltorian use of booms to create multiple ships classes from base hulls and the Tholian use of Command Modules as auxiliary warships I wonder if the “docking wing” of these ships might originally (or later) have been designed to dock with a “sidecar” module that may or may not have been able to operate as an independent starship. This would allow a raider base hull to operate with mission specific systems (if these systems were in the sidecar) or would provide a common component if the base hulls themselves were mission specific (in which case different classes would use a "universal" sidecar module).
Might the winged version also act as a tug? Just slap a pod or two under there and you're good to go.
With this recent arrival, I was inspired to take a further look at what I'd like to see for the Nebuline.
To be clear, this is my own personal view, and is by no means intended to overwrite or pre-empt whatever Loren Knight or ADB might prefer to go with regarding this faction.
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Personally-speaking, I would wish to see a fully "campaign-compatible" set of "wingless" hulls - from police cutter to battleship, with whatever "mission variants" would be deemed appropriate for use in the M81 setting - which could be used to fight the Great Martial War.
I wouldn't mind a few additional "winged" raider types also. Say, an "OGC" based on a "wingless" heavy cruiser, or an "OGF" based on a "wingless" frigate. (But then, perhaps the Nebuline use separate terminology; might their version of the OGR be called the "CLR", or some such?)
I'm not sure if I'd want to see "nebula-bound" variants of the "wingless" hulls, with some of its systems (such as transporters or tractor beams) removed.
To put it another way, I would want the Nebuline to be less tied to their home terrain than the Qixa fleet is to theirs.
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So far as weapons go, I would suggest keeping the same phaser-1s and phaser-3s as those provided to the High Pirate Bands.
However, while it would make sense for the "winged" raiders in Nebuline service to retain the use of option mounts, along with the ability to mount particle cannons or shield crackers in them, I would want the "winged" Nebuline navy to have its own array of unique weapon types.
For example, I think a good option for a Nebuline heavy weapon could be a "modern" take on the plasma vortex launcher (YE27.0), used in the Early Years Alpha Octant by the "warp-driven" Pronhoulite ships in Module Y2 and Module Y3. This weapon requires two centreline-adjacent option mounts, and can be armed over one, two, or three turns. (Since a nebula is a giant cloud of charged ions, it might seem reasonable for an empire living in one to develop direct-fire weapons based on some sort of plasma technology.) Such a weapon could also be used by the "winged" raiders in Nebuline service, though whether they'd export this weapon to the High Pirate Bands is another matter.
As a tertiary weapon, perhaps an area-of-effect device, akin to the Koligahr antimatter cloud generator or to the Chlorophon subspace coagulator, could be used as a nebula-in-a-can? Say, if it had both a "fuel" component (armed from any source) and a "catalyst" component (requiring warp power). Arming the "fuel" component alone would place a temporary "quiet" nebula hex in open space. Arming the "fuel" and "catalyst" components together would trigger random movement under (P6.5) in open space, but would immediately dissipate. While firing the "catalyst" while inside of a nebula would trigger the same random movement - even in a "quiet" nebula. Such a system would be restricted Nebuline technology.
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Whatever the "key Nebuline technology" that provides them with "a serious advantage in combat" while inside a nebula actually is, it would appear not to be innate to their hull types the way that, say, Qixa ships are tailored for use in the Qixavalor Cloud.
However, there might be another way to look at it. Perhaps the Nebuline, when building ships for their own use, weave in certain components required for a "Nebular Combat System" during construction, yet leave these components out when building OGRs and OGDs for export.
But even then, I'd picture the "NCS" as being a "paid for" system, akin to a cloaking device (or Jumokian distortion field generator or Zosman Stealth field). As in, the Nebuline ship has to pay a certain power cost per turn in order to keep the NCS active - and if they don't, their ships gain no benefit from combat in a nebula. Perhaps it might even have a hit-and-run box for its control hub (akin to that for a cloak, or a Jumokian DFG's tuning crystals).
I'm still not quite sure what this "NCS" would actually do for the Nebuline ship while it is running. Perhaps one aspect of it would be to make the Nebuline immune to random movement in an active nebula?
In any case, this "NCS" would be restricted Nebuline technology.
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On a side note, I had asked over in the Module R4T discussion thread if "fast" engines could be permitted to exist in the M81 setting. On the off chance that "home galaxy" variants of the Neo-Tholian NLF, NCF, NDL, and/or NBL SSDs were ever to be drawn up, it would be welcome to see equivalent "wingless" Nebuline hulls for use during the Great Martial War. Whether or not any of these hulls would survive long enough to act as fast responders inside a holdout nebula is another matter.
The "wingless" hulls may have been equipped differently in the era of the Great Martial War (when the Nebuline were contesting control of the Galaxy) than they were in the era preceding the Tholian revolt when only the "winged" hulls ventured outside the safety of the Nebula. I think it would be easier to focus on the "modern" Nebuline.
I don't think the Nebuline should have shield crackers or option mounts. We know the Nebuline provided hulls to the High Pirate Bands but that doesn't mean they had access to the same foreign technology that the pirates had.
I might be a matter of logistics. With the standardization of particle cannon and shield cracker usage across M81, and the ability of the "winged" raiders to capture freighters (and auxiliaries) underwing to bring home with them, plus any salvage from captured or destroyed enforcer species patrol ships, it would seem reasonable for each Nebuline colony to steadily build up stockpiles of such weapons - or perhaps even to possess a limited capacity to build or repair them, so as to better support the High Pirate Bands they hold under contract.
Given how useful the shield cracker is on the raiding mission, it would seem counter-productive for the "winged" Nebuline raiders to forego them entirely. Not least since using them helps make it easier to masquerade as "regular" pirates, so as not to draw too much attention towards the home colony itself.
Could the Nebuline have been the first enforcer species?
They were opponents of the Tholians in the Great Martial War but perhaps they "surrendered" (when defeat appeared inevitable) and agreed (under false pretenses) to serve the Tholians.
Only later, after a failed revolt, did they withdraw completely to their nebula colonies.
According to the Pirates of M81 Galaxy article, the Nebuline spent the first century after their defeat deploying their "winged" raiders as part of a vain attempt to overturn Tholian rule. Which could have involved working alongside the earliest of the enforcer species, depending on how soon they rose up after the conquest.
Yet after this, they were eventually obliged to devolve into sending them as "mere" privateers (though the Tholians would view them as "pirates" nonetheless), taking only what they needed in order to survive.
While, as noted in the main M81 thread, I would personally lean towards Mike West's suggestion that the various enforcer species used the same ship templates which the Seltorians would later inherit, it would be interesting to see each of the surviving Nebuline colonies host a diverse array of exiles and escapees from other species. Be it those space-faring empires vanquished before or during the Great Martial War; those pre-Seltorian enforcer species who rose and fell one after another; or (as SPP suggested elsewhere on the BBS) those would-be "reformers" fleeing the losing side of the occasional Tholian civil war.
Which could make things interesting from a Prime Directive perspective, perhaps.
For those who have not already seen it over in the Shapeways portion of the BBS, these three images might help give a better sense of what the 3125 scale OGR mini in SFDP looks like with some paint on it. While it's very much a work in progress on my part, and I don't claim to be a painting expert by any means, I thought it might help highlight a few details of note - such as the "guide rails" beneath the port wing, between the centre hull and the wing-mounted warp nacelle. I'm guessing those are there to help secure a docked freighter in place.
I'm guessing that a "wingless" Nebuline warship would not need said rails, and might perhaps adjust the phaser arcs to be more symmetrical relative to those on the "winged" raider hulls. Might it retain the landing pads in order to land on planets, though?
In an earlier post, I had mentioned a would-be "modern" upgrade to the the plasma-vortex launcher as a potentially interesting heavy weapon to consider here. More recently, I was thinking a bit more on what such an upgrade might actually look like.
The Early Years version of this weapon requires two points of power to arm per turn, but cannot be held at any arming level. Nor can it use rolling delay, the way the charged particle accelerator (ME3.0) can out in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud. It has no overload function either.
Perhaps a "modern" version of this weapon could make two changes.
Firstly, perhaps it could be held (or use rolling delay) at each arming level, should the arming player wish to do so.
Secondly, perhaps it could be given a rapid-load function, where the arming player can pay two points of reserve or battery power to fire the weapon at the next highest arming level, but only at the impulse of firing. This would be akin to how the implosion bolt (OE6.0), typically a three-turn arming weapon, can be rapid-loaded to fire on the second turn of arming over in the Omega Octant. For one thing, this would avoid the need to adjust the PVL's combat table.
It might be too dangerous to let this weapon fast-load all the way up from the first arming level to the third arming level in one go - unless one were to throw in a subsequent "cool-down" turn as a balancing measure?
Of course, this is only intended as a "backup" option, to be potentially discarded in favour of whatever ADB and Loren Knight might prefer to give the Nebuline fleet. Even so, I find this weapon to be an interesting one to speculate upon.
I don't know if this party has moved on, or is over altogether, but I saw this thread the other day and thought I'd throw some ideas out in case anything sticks. If they’re too late for this topic, maybe they'll provide someone else with food for thought.
I've organised these points by rule letter. So here goes...
C/P Movement
Nebuline ships can sometimes avoid random movement or turns caused by nebulas. It should not be enough to completely negate these effects, so players have to choose when to use it. The ability might be built into the hull, or it might be an SSD system that can be destroyed. It might be done by ramscoops (see section H)
D
Layered shields
Instead of having minimum shields and full shields, Nebuline ships have multiple sets (layers) of minimum shields.
E.g. If a CA has 25 point shields, each shield would have 5 layers of 5-point shields: Shields 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 2A, etc.
In a nebula, the ship can only operate one layer at a time, but can change which layer it uses each turn. Outside a nebula, the ship can operate all layers as normal. Operating each layer might require the same power as minimum shields.
E.g. Full shields for the CA above would not cost 1+1 as a normal SC3 unit, but 1+4
E Weapons
Weapons that roll 2d6 to hit will be less affected by nebula ECM. A Weapon that rolls 3d6 to hit would be even less vulnerable and, AFAIK, unique in SFB.
A weapon more effective doing internals than shield damage would also be an advantage in a nebula, even if it was underpowered when used against fully shielded units.
FD
As far as I know, the Tholian galaxy doesn't have any seeking weapons, but maybe that could be stretched to accommodate a drone-like unit that isn't a weapon, similar to the way Alpha ECM drones are seeking "weapons" but instead of damaging enemy units, they seek friendly units and provide them with a benefit.
G
Option mounts
If the Nebuline live in multiple nebulas, that suggests to me their ships were designed to operate/fight in open space to facilitate movement between nebulas. Option mounts for weapons and non-weapon systems would allow them to configure ships to operate in or outside/between nebulas without needing multiple designs.
H
Ramscoops
Ramscoops are fictional engines that draw in material (e.g. hydrogen) from space as a unit travels and uses it for fuel. IMHO, if this would work anywhere in SFU, it would work in a nebula.
Nebuline ramscoops would be power systems that don't work outside nebula, but inside nebula are better than regular power systems. They might produce 2 points of power. Or they might produce a point of power and allow a unit to counter nebula-caused movement/turns, as suggested in the C section above.
R
SC5 shuttle substitutes
As shuttles can't survive in nebulas, they might create substitutes. I suggest SC5 units with similar abilities to shuttles
E.g. speed 6, enough hull to take 3 damage without losing capabilities, Ph-3, no shields, etc.
As far as I know, if you can add a message, it's still open. 
Some of the things you suggested have actually been addressed in the Omega Books.
Weapon that uses 3D6 for its charts? The Focussed Energy Beam (Omega 3, IIRC).
More damage once a shield is down? Plasma Whips (Omega 1).
Also, while I may be misreading things (a LOT), the shields you suggested have some of the characteristics of Soul Shields (again, Omega 3).
On a different note, what you describe with "Nebula-Proof Shuttles?" I can't help but think of the non-combat variants of Andromedan MWPs, but that's probably just my usual dingbattiness at work...
Jeff Anderson, the Iridani FEB uses a 2D6 chart for its hit and damage determination.
The Nicozian Subspace Auger, on the other hand, uses a 3D6 chart. Unfortunately, it's still in playtest AFAIK and may be subject to change.
Jeff A:
"As far as I know, if you can add a message, it's still open. "
I wrote that intro as we players don't know what decisions ADB have made until they publish something. So for all I know, any or all details of Nebuline might have been decided. Or not.
"Weapon that uses 3D6 for its charts?"
I should have known better than to say it didn't already exist. SMH.
Jeff A:
"Also, while I may be misreading things (a LOT), the shields you suggested have some of the characteristics of Soul Shields"
I didn't explain the layered shields concept very well, that post got longer than I intended. They’re not as flexible as Soul Shields
Standard shields have 5 boxes of minimum shield (unless shields are less than 5 boxes), with full shields being all boxes. The minimum shields are the first boxes destroyed.
In a nebula, units can only operate minimum shields.
Layered shields would allow you to change which 5 boxes of the shields are the minimum, within limits. So if a unit has 15 box shields on all sides, Shield facing 1 has shields 1A, 1B and 1C (5 boxes each). Shield facing 2 has shields 2A, 2B and 2C
Outside a nebula you can operate any and all layers as normal, though there might be a higher power cost to do so?
In a nebula, you might start operating the A layer, so your minimum shields are 1A, 2A, etc. If shield 2A gets destroyed, you might decide to switch to the B layer. So 1A, 1B, etc. stop working, and 1B, 2B, etc. are now your minimum shields. If shield 1B was destroyed, you might switch to C layer.
If all shields in C layer were destroyed, you could switch to A layer, with a destroyed 2A shield, or B layer, with a destroyed 1B shield. You could not operate, say, 1A and 2B, because they are in different layers. (Outside a nebula you could operate both layers.)
I also assume there would be limits to switching. It might be limited to start of turn. It might be once per turn at any time with an 8 impulse period where neither layer operates.
If different shields have different strengths, some layers might have shields missing. If shield strengths aren't multiples of 5, some layers might have less than 5 boxes on each shield.
Having thought about this some more, to avoid making layered shields too RPS (advantaged in nebula but disadvantaged out of nebula), the layer system might be more limited. I suggested non-weapon options so ships could be configured differently for operations within and without nebulas. Maybe a unit needs a system box in an option mount to be able to operate each layer, besides A layer. So a Nebuline unit would be choosing to give up some other system to gain the extra shield layer. This might be more balanced.
Jeff C, one of the great beauties of the game is the variety. Even things that look/feel similar can be very different.
Thanks for the reminder.